I believe , i was duped into starting TRT therapy !

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lebo

New Member
I am a 50 year old , extremely healthy guy who goes daily to the gym , plays squash on weekends and eats a 90% paleo diet. Overall my general health couldn't be better . Due to a stressful couple of years in the business i was in , i started feeling less energetic , lower libido and my memory was not as sharp as i used to be . I heard of a new new anti aging medical centre had opened in the UAE with clinics in Los Angeles and other countries in which i booked for an executive screening that entails all kinds of tests , as i work in a very stressfull job and was worried about my wellbeing .

Accordingly everything was in the normal state except my vitamin D and a slight rise in the Cortisol level and my testosterone level was 499 . The Doctor , who is a well known figure stated to me that i should increase my testosterone level as it would give me a better life style , i would feel better , have better sex and maintain and increase muscle mass . he pushed me into having a T shot every 3 weeks even though my level was 499 ! (please understand that in our area , most of the doctors are dinoasuars when it comes to T treatement and i had no clue about Testosterone and that this number is actually very good ).

Of course , i felt extremely better in all sense and was quite happy with the outcome in terms of muscle , libido and general wellbeing .
To cut the story short : after 2 years of taking shots of different types i stuck with DEPO TESTOSTERONE by PFIZER and then started recently TESTOSTERONE ENANTHATE which i was taking 0.4 mg, every week .

My T level in the 2 years fluctuated from 499 to 350 to 560 and recently was 260 , due to changing the brand of the drug . I was getting fed up of the weekly chore of injecting this and i started going into forums and understanding more about the T , which was clear that once you start you cannot stop . I then 5 months ago decided to stop the T injections and met with another doctor ( in the same clinic ) who told me to take CLOMID and stop the T , in which i did . Immediately within a couple of days of starting the CLOMID , i was in the worst state i have ever felt myself to be ; depression , muscle loss , tiredness , a fog of cloud in my daily activities and anxiety.

When i told this to my doctor , he recommended i continue the T injections , in which i did .
Now , my issue is this : when i did my 1st test , my T level was 499 and for the centre to make money and hook you they got me me hooked on T in order to benefit and keep me as their cash cow because i needed to do blood tests and they were the only ones that have Testosterone in stock !!

Has anyone been duped into this ? and can i stop and get my petuitary gland and my testicles working again and producing natural T without crashing ?
Please advise
 
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CoastWatcher

Moderator
A number of points. At age 50, in the US and Canada, many, probably most, doctors would be hesitant to initiate TRT with levels that you presented. Certainly not on the basis of one blood test. In addition to your total testosterone, there should have been further lab work: free testosterone, shbg, LH, FSH, estradiol, cbc, thyroid panel, psa. Were these test run? If so, could you post the results, with ranges?

A protocol that calls for an injection every three weeks is not going to boost your total testosterone levles; it will give you a bump, perhaps a significant bump, following your injection, but you will be at baseline - if not lower - by the time of your next injection. You are going for a bumpy ride in a lousy car. In short, you are not receiving good medical care. Far from it. Sadly, a lot of men, including many of us here, have had poor care and had to work hard to find a good doctor.

But there are doctors out there who can help you. Can you explain your current protocol in detail? Your "dose" didn't make a lot sense (0.4mg)? Are you now on weekly injections? Give us some more details, including lab work, and you will hear from us.
 

Nelson Vergel

Founder, ExcelMale.com
I think at 50 years of age and a 499 ng/dL total testosterone blood level I would have suggested first:

1- Better sleep. Good sleep hygiene (going to bed before 10-11 pm, getting 7-8 hours of sleep, ensuring that you have no sleep apnea) can improve T levels.

2- Weight loss. If your BMI is over 26, losing weight may improve T level.

3- Ensuring that your blood drawn was done in the morning and under fasting conditions. Breakfast can decrease testosterone by 20 percent due to a spike in insulin.

4- Taking low dose Cialis daily. This has been proven to increase the testosterone-to-estradiol ratio.

5- Measuring your LH, FSH, TSH, free T3 and free T4. Low thyroid function mimics the symptoms of low T.

You obviously were not being dosed right since your total T never increased beyond baseline.

I do not know what dose of Clomid you took. Some men successfully get off TRT with a HPTA reset protocol but the 4-6 week process is usually not really fun.

A staggered combination of HCG, Clomid and Tamoxifen are used.

We can discuss that in more detail if you wish.
 

Vettester Chris

Super Moderator
Agree with above .. Duped, not so much. Misguided, probably a little.

At this point, I'd anticipate your HPTA is suppressed, and it's going to be difficult IMO to recover it with a PCT of Clomid (or some other SERM) and HCG. I could be wrong, so all you can do is try. You will need to know all your labs going in, then retake new labs after the PCT, and a month or so thereafter to see if gonadotropin production is sustaining (permitting you see an acceptable increase from a PCT).
 
I feel for you. I'm 41 and started a few years ago. My levels were around 425 but I had every symptom. Doctor figured it was worth a shot. Went on and after two years realized it didn't fix what was wrong. Tried to restart my own production and failed. Went back on for a year. Tried another restart and failed miserably. Have now resigned myself to staying on it for life.
 

ERO

Member
Even if you cannot restart your natural production, getting a new doctor that understands TRT and going to a twice a week injection protocol vs the one every 3 weeks you were on is likely to help you feel healthy and well overall.

Also, there are a lot more sophisticated re-start protocols that just taking clomid by itself. I would talk with Nelson about them if I were you.
 

lebo

New Member
I think at 50 years of age and a 499 ng/dL total testosterone blood level I would have suggested first:

1- Better sleep. Good sleep hygiene (going to bed before 10-11 pm, getting 7-8 hours of sleep, ensuring that you have no sleep apnea) can improve T levels.

2- Weight loss. If your BMI is over 26, losing weight may improve T level.

3- Ensuring that your blood drawn was done in the morning and under fasting conditions. Breakfast can decrease testosterone by 20 percent due to a spike in insulin.

4- Taking low dose Cialis daily. This has been proven to increase the testosterone-to-estradiol ratio.

5- Measuring your LH, FSH, TSH, free T3 and free T4. Low thyroid function mimics the symptoms of low T.

You obviously were not being dosed right since your total T never increased beyond baseline.

I do not know what dose of Clomid you took. Some men successfully get off TRT with a HPTA reset protocol but the 4-6 week process is usually not really fun.

A staggered combination of HCG, Clomid and Tamoxifen are used.

We can discuss that in more detail if you wish.

Dear Nelson
These were my numbers in 19-08-2013
Luteinising Hormone (L.H.) 3.3 IU/L
Free Testosterone 6 pg/ml
Free T3 5.01 pmol/L
Free T4 18.41 pmol/L
Testosterone 499 ng/dl




These are my numbers on 09-06-2015
Free T3 4.34 pmol/L
Testosterone 353 ng/dl

Have been on testosterone enanthate 0.4 mg shot every week

Can you please explain the dosages for the HPTA reset protocol ?
Thanks
 

CoastWatcher

Moderator
Dear Nelson
These were my numbers in 19-08-2013
Luteinising Hormone (L.H.) 3.3 IU/L
Free Testosterone 6 pg/ml
Free T3 5.01 pmol/L
Free T4 18.41 pmol/L
Testosterone 499 ng/dl




These are my numbers on 09-06-2015
Free T3 4.34 pmol/L
Testosterone 353 ng/dl

Have been on testosterone enanthate 0.4 mg shot every week

Can you please explain the dosages for the HPTA reset protocol ?
Thanks

https://www.excelmale.com/?s=56-How...-Safely-and-Possibly-Reset-Your-Hormonal-Axis

This links you to an earlier post where Nelson detailed the hormonal axis reset.
 
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