Hyper excretor vs hyper responder

[JayD]

Why do some guys respond well to low dose of test, while some guys need large doses. I have come across threads online with guys claiming they do 50-60mg per week and feel great with midrange numbers. Then other threads guys are taking up to 250 to get the same result.

What is the pharmacokinetics behind this?

 

[Systemlord]

Why do some guys respond well to low dose of test, while some guys need large doses

When I was on a medium esters like cypionate or ethanate while on 7 mg daily injections, I over responded so strongly that it causes life-threatening complications.

An every other day protocol is no different, it just takes longer till these symptoms start up. I know it has something to do with unnaturally static hormone levels that would never be achievable naturally.

I need an average dosage on Jatenzo and I respond vigorously, even my endo has said he thinks I'm over-responding to Jatenzo.

I didn't respond to once and twice weekly injections, no anabolic effects whatsoever.

I think some people are very sensitive to changes in pharmacodynamics.

 

[Cataceous]

Physiologically speaking you'd be hard-pressed to find many guys who actually "need" more testosterone per week than what's found in 100-120 mg of testosterone cypionate. In other words, with the average healthy young guy producing testosterone at a rate equivalent to 65 mg of cypionate per week, when you start talking about double this amount you're getting beyond what's realistically found in nature.

There are certainly guys who believe they do better with larger doses. But how many have actually performed a scrupulous evaluation, with months of stabilization? Very commonly, initial dosing with injections is too high. When side effects prompt a lowering of the dose it's not unusual to feel worse for a period. Many may just assume that a couple weeks of feeling worse means the higher dose is better.

There's nothing very unusual about doing well on 50-60 mg cypionate per week. The 5-6 mg of testosterone per day is within the oft-cited natural production range of 3-9 mg. It's suspect to say that the guys taking 130-250 mg per week of cypionate get the "same result". Presumably this is supposed to mean the subjective experience. Objectively the high-dose group has out-of-range free testosterone. How many escape the more obvious negative side effects, such as elevated hematocrit or estradiol?

If a guy truly needs very high testosterone levels to feel normal then high dosing may somehow be compensating for other problems or imbalances. Is it advisable to mask such problems indefinitely?

 

[JayD]

It's certainly interesting this stuff to say the least. I am 5 weeks in on a low dose 18mg MWF(54mg - week), and everyday feels different such a roller coaster.

 

[JayD]

When I was on a medium esters like cypionate or ethanate while on 7 mg daily injections, I over responded so strongly that it causes life-threatening complications.

An every other day protocol is no different, it just takes longer till these symptoms start up. I know it has something to do with unnaturally static hormone levels that would never be achievable naturally.

I need an average dosage on Jatenzo and I respond vigorously, even my endo has said he thinks I'm over-responding to Jatenzo.

I didn't respond to once and twice weekly injections, no anabolic effects whatsoever.

I think some people are very sensitive to changes in pharmacodynamics.

May I ask what were the left threatening complications

 

[Systemlord]

May I ask what were the left threatening complications

Whenever I would fall asleep, I would hear a strange noise in my right side of my abdomen.

A couple hours later I would wake up feeling of impending doom, that sound in my right side is much louder now, swollen and very hot to the touch.

My head would feel horrible and strange, legs hurt and I could barely breath and waking up cleared the symptoms quickly.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to determine that I must have had extremely low blood pressure.

As I fell asleep, a lowering of blood pressure is a guarantee and that's the trigger for that sound.

During the waking hours my skin would burn, turn red and sting like acids in my skin.

 

[JayD]

I just wondered if there was a correlation between the liver and how it cleaves off the test ie: slow/fast etc

 

[bixt]

I just wondered if there was a correlation between the liver and how it cleaves off the test ie: slow/fast etc

The cleaving is done in the blood by the esterase enzyme

 

[tareload]

I just wondered if there was a correlation between the liver and how it cleaves off the test ie: slow/fast etc

Look up the term clearance on here. Tons of information on what controls the release and elimination of free testosterone from the injected testosterone ester.

The other critical term is volume of distribution which sets your ng/dl response per mg of test ester injected.

 

[Belekas]

Interesting topic for sure. For example why I can't tollerate some substances at all when others do enjoy them without feeling like shit from the get go. Probably the same with testosterone, it's not for everybody. But unless you have exhausted all other options I guess you will never know what works and what not. There's always outliers so perhaps you fall in this category. Nonetheless I'm following as I'm about to start the journey myself.)