How Much Is Needed for Vitamin D?

[Vince]

How much sun is it safe to get without sunscreen?

It's difficult to quantify how much since skin pigmentation affects how much radiation your skin absorbs: The darker the skin, the more it's protected against skin cancer but the less able it is to absorb UV-B rays. It also depends on how much skin is exposed and the time of day. If you're fair skinned and sunning yourself outside in a bathing suit at noon, you only need a few minutes without sunscreen. If you're already tan or of Hispanic origin, you need maybe 15 to 20 minutes. Black skin may require six times the sun exposure to make the same vitamin D levels as a very fair-skinned person, but we need more research on this because the studies that have suggested this have been small. We're starting a study later this year to establish how much skin pigmentation, clothing, sunscreen, and seasonal change affect vitamin D levels, so we should know more about all of this in the near future.
​

https://health.usnews.com/health-ne...e-in-the-sun-how-much-is-needed-for-vitamin-d

 

[blackebob]

My vitamin D at my last level is off the chart. Doctor wanted to know what I take for a supplement and I said nothing I work outside. I always get a nice healthy looking Tan in the spring summer and fall I never use sunscreen I used to think that I would regret it someday but now I'm starting to think that .

https://wellnessmama.com/55366/sunscreen-is-harmful/

 

[Vince]

Vit. D activation in the skin is age-dependent, declining sharply as we age. The one thing that I do know is that I will keep taking supplemental vitamin D to keep my levels up regardless of how much sun I get.

​

 

[Joej85]

One thing I just realized is that vitamin d suppresses melatonin!

I have been dealing with poor sleep for years and just realized that by taking 10,000 Iu of vitamin d per day I was killing my melatonin production.

I stopped taking vitamin d a couple weeks ago and have been sleeping so so so much better!

I started taking vitamin d several years ago when my levels checked on the low side, and Even at 10000 Iu per day were still not at nominal levels.

I had no idea it was affecting my sleep like it was.

 

[Re-Ride]

UV Index is published by locale daily on a scale of 1-11. At elevation it may be MUCH higher than the nearest local station which could be at sea level. Read the guidelines, take recommended measures.
https://www.cancer.org.au/preventing-cancer/workplace-cancer/uv-radiation.html

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/documents/uviguide.pdf

Age makes one more vulnerable. I managed to cause what looks like permanent wrinkling at 2000 ft with one time a 45 min? exposure in March. Prior to the intentional exposure I had been experiencing painful psoriasis on elbows. No amount of sunlight exposure on its own would raise my serum 25,OH D hydroxy levels. Intensive supplementation only gets me to 45 yet I was still symptomatic. The body must produce other yet unidentified essential substances from the sun. The exposure resolved the symptoms . Too bad I did not follow guidelines for safe exposure.

 

[Vince]

One thing I just realized is that vitamin d suppresses melatonin!

I have been dealing with poor sleep for years and just realized that by taking 10,000 Iu of vitamin d per day I was killing my melatonin production.

I stopped taking vitamin d a couple weeks ago and have been sleeping so so so much better!

I started taking vitamin d several years ago when my levels checked on the low side, and Even at 10000 Iu per day were still not at nominal levels.

I had no idea it was affecting my sleep like it was.

Vitamin D is the sunshine vitamin. I was always told to supplement my D in the morning. When supplementing D your body may think it's morning, this isn't true for everyone though.

 

[Coopsdaddy]

5-10000 iu per day

 

[Gman86]

Has anyone ever heard of Morley Robbins? I came across him a while ago, and he has some very interesting views on Vitamin D. I highly suggest for anyone supplementing with Vitamin D to check him out.

Here's one example of his thoughts on Vitamin D
http://my-magnesium.com/hormone-d.html

 

[Gman86]

Here's also a video on his views of vitamin D, along with his views on other vitamins and minerals. Anyone supplementing with vitamin D or zinc should check him out. I personally feel like my very low Magnesium RBC levels are the result of years of taking too much Vitamin D (around 6K-10K iu's per day). Taking too much Vitamin D is far from benign, and can cause a lot of imbalances within the body. Be careful. It's not actually even a vitamin, it's really a hormone. And as we know, taking any hormone in excess will cause an imbalance with other processes in the body. Vitamin D is no different.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq94ROB5qEs

 

[Vince]

Here's also a video on his views of vitamin D, along with his views on other vitamins and minerals. Anyone supplementing with vitamin D or zinc should check him out. I personally feel like my very low Magnesium RBC levels are the result of years of taking too much Vitamin D. Taking too much Vitamin D is far from benign, and can cause a lot of imbalances within the body. Be careful. It's not actually even a vitamin, it's really a hormone. And as we know, taking any hormone in excess will cause an imbalance with other processes in the body. Vitamin D is no different.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq94ROB5qEs

I have heard that high levels of vitamin D3 can do harm or even moderate levels. I do know people who stop supplementing with vitamin D3 and try to get the natural vitamin from the sunlight. I haven't had a chance to watch the videos but I will. Thanks for the postings.

 

[Gman86]

I have heard that high levels of vitamin D3 can do harm or even moderate levels. I do know people who stop supplementing with vitamin D3 and try to get the natural vitamin from the sunlight. I haven't had a chance to watch the videos but I will. Thanks for the postings.

Anytime. Knowledge is power. Wish someone would of told me years ago about the dangers of over supplementing Vitamin D, but at least this information can hopefully help others early on in their health journey before it causes them any issues.

 

[Gman86]

I just tried making a new thread on this guy and his information, but for some reason I wasn't able to. So here's the info I was gonna post. Sorry for multiple posts about this guy and his info, don't mean to clutter up this thread. Final post about him, I swear lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq94ROB5qEs ( Video on his general views )
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=morley+robbins ( All of his videos on youtube )


http://my-magnesium.com/hormone-d.html ( All about vitamin D )


http://heatherdane.com/myths-and-truths-about-minerals/ ( Breakdown of vitamins and minerals )


The Root Cause Protocol

STOP

1. STOP Vitamin-D ONLY Supplements (Supplemental “vitamin”-D KILLS Liver Retinol that is needed for Cp) More on Vitamin/Hormone-D…
2. STOP Calcium Supplements! (Ca BLOCKS Magnesium & Iron absorption)
3. STOP Iron Supplements! (Iron, or Fe SHUTS DOWN Copper metabolism) More on Iron Toxicity…
4. STOP Ascorbic Acid (Ascorbic Acid disrupts the Copper < > Cp bond)
5. STOP High Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS) & Synthetic Sugars (HFCS Lowers Liver Copper & Raises Liver Iron)
6. STOP LOW Fat Diet (Saturated Fat is needed for proper Copper absorption)
7. STOP Using Industrialized, “Heart Healthy” Omega-6 Oils! (e.g. Soybean, Corn, Canola Oils)
8. STOP Using products with Fluoride (toothpaste, bottled water, etc.)
9. STOP Taking “Drugstore” Multivitamins & Pre-natals (They contain the first four items above, plus trace amounts of fluoride)
10. STOP Using Citrate in Foods & Supplements (e.g. “Natural Calm”)
11. STOP Using Colloidal Silver as an Antibiotic (It lowers Copper status in the body! Nanonized Silver is ok)

START

1. START Magnesium (Mg) supplements (Jigsaw Mag SRT, Pure Encaps Mag Glycinate, Mag Oil, etc. See Magnesium Supplement Recommendations) to lower Adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH) & Cortisol. (Dose: 5 mg/lb or 10 mg/kg body weight. Be mindful of the Mg cofactors: B6, Boron, and Bicarbonate.
2. START taking the Adrenal ****tail (4oz fresh orange juice, 1/4 tsp Cream of Tartar and 1/4 tsp sea salt) at 10am and 2pm on an empty stomach to balance electrolytes.
3. START Cod Liver Oil supplements (1 tsp Nordic Naturals Arctic or 1 tsp Rosita) for Retinol, animal based Vitamin A.
4. START Whole Food Vitamin C supplements (Innate Response tablets or Pure Radiance Synergy powder: 400 – 800 mg/day (Key source of Copper)
5. START Using Mother Nature sources for B Vitamins:
   – take ½ tsp of Bee Pollen
   – take 1 – 2 tsp of Rice Bran (be sure to take AWAY FROM other foods)
   – eat 4 – 6 ounces of Beef Liver weekly
   (research shows that several B vitamins are KEY for Cp production. Please get these as noted above B2 (Riboflavin) – Key for Cu/Fe regulation in the liver; B5 (Pantothenate) – Supports the production of Vitamin C; B7 (Biotin) – Key for Cu/Fe regulation in the liver.
6. START Using Silica (Diatomaceous Earth) that stimulates an increase in Cp! (Start with 1 tsp in water at the start or end of the day, and work up to 3 tsp [1 Tbs] each day.)
7. START Boron (1 – 3 mg/day, or add 1 Tbs borax to magnesium baths) – aids in Synthesis of Cp, and regulation of Fe.
8. START Taurine (500 – 1,000 mg/day) Supports liver copper metabolism
9. START Ancestral Diet (HIGH Fat & Protein/LOW Carb) Good for Copper absorption
10. START Iodine (PREREQUISITE: Mg RBC & Se RBC need to be optimal) Until then, add Iodine rich foods like kelp, seaweeds, scallops, cod, eggs, cranberries, etc. to the diet.

Additional Factors to Consider regarding Ceruloplasmin (Cp):

• Chlorinated water is hard on Copper & Magnesium, thus is hard on Cp production.
• High dose Zinc supplements BLOCK Copper absorption, which reduces Cp production.
• Molybdenum is known to chelate Copper and BLOCK Ceruloplasmin production.

“Why Should I Believe This?”

Good question.
My research on Magnesium began in earnest in 2009 by reading Dr. Carolyn Dean’s wonderful book, The Magnesium Miracle.
In 2012, I was convinced Magnesium was THE answer, and I started this website and the Magnesium Advocacy Group.
I then began coaching clients on Hair Tissue Mineral Analysis (HTMA) tests. It was then I realized that when some folks began Magnesium supplementation, their Magnesium RBC never seemed to go up. So I kept reading the scientific literature.
That’s how I discovered the role Copper & Iron play in Magnesium & Calcium regulation, and that a dysregulation can be tied — through the scientific literature — to pretty much everything.
We run on minerals folks.
(Btw, electrolytes are minerals. And you already know what happens when you start running low…)
As the Magnesium Advocacy Group grew in size, so did my client list.
And my clients — over 3,000 since 2014 from all over the world — helped me discover the steps that I now call “The Root Cause Protocol.”
Through trial and error; through painstaking research of over 2,000 (and counting) peer-reviewed scientific research papers, I’ve assembled these 21 steps.
I’m sure you have many questions. (And yes, I still need to go through and backfill each step with cited sources to give you the “why”, and so you can see I’m not just making this stuff up.)
I am one man, and I have only so many hours in each day.
So for questions and comments, please request access to join the Magnesium Advocacy Group on ********.
There are over 115,000 (and growing) MAG-pies who can help answer questions, give you encouragement, and share their own experiences with The Root Cause Protocol.
A votre sante!
– Morley Robbins (aka. “Magnesium Man”)
PS – PLEASE READ THIS UPDATE What you see above is a work-in-progress version of The Root Cause Protocol, originally titled, “The Steps To Increase Ceruloplasmin.” I added each step over the course of several years while researching peer-reviewed scientific literature from around the world. I have revised and refined this material at my new website, TheRootCauseProtocol.com, and I strongly encourage you to use that new resource instead of this page, which is slightly out of date. A votré sante! -Morley Robbins, Jan 11, 2018

 

[Will Brink]

How much sun is it safe to get without sunscreen?

It's difficult to quantify how much since skin pigmentation affects how much radiation your skin absorbs: The darker the skin, the more it's protected against skin cancer but the less able it is to absorb UV-B rays. It also depends on how much skin is exposed and the time of day. If you're fair skinned and sunning yourself outside in a bathing suit at noon, you only need a few minutes without sunscreen. If you're already tan or of Hispanic origin, you need maybe 15 to 20 minutes. Black skin may require six times the sun exposure to make the same vitamin D levels as a very fair-skinned person, but we need more research on this because the studies that have suggested this have been small. We're starting a study later this year to establish how much skin pigmentation, clothing, sunscreen, and seasonal change affect vitamin D levels, so we should know more about all of this in the near future.
​

https://health.usnews.com/health-ne...e-in-the-sun-how-much-is-needed-for-vitamin-d

A generally good article, but I really question statements like "If you're fair skinned, experts say going outside for 10 minutes in the midday sun—in shorts and a tank top with no sunscreen—will give you enough radiation to produce about 10,000 international units of the vitamin."

It's interesting to note that studies looking at people who get considerably more sun then that, such as surfers and such, often low in 25OHD. As far as the "how much D do I need and how do I know?" type Qs, Monica M's article probably the best out there:

http://www.brinkzone.com/bodybuilding/vitamin-d-whats-the-optimal-level-and-how-to-achieve-it/

 

[Gman86]

A generally good article, but I really question statements like "If you're fair skinned, experts say going outside for 10 minutes in the midday sun—in shorts and a tank top with no sunscreen—will give you enough radiation to produce about 10,000 international units of the vitamin."

It's interesting to note that studies looking at people who get considerably more sun then that, such as surfers and such, often low in 25OHD. As far as the "how much D do I need and how do I know?" type Qs, Monica M's article probably the best out there:

http://www.brinkzone.com/bodybuilding/vitamin-d-whats-the-optimal-level-and-how-to-achieve-it/

Just like total testosterone and free testosterone, there's a test for the storage vitamin D, and the active level of vitamin D. 99% of people are only being tested for the storage form (Vitamin D, 25-OH). Which is like just testing for total testosterone without knowing your free T level. What everyone should be testing for, alongside the storage form, is their Vitamin D, 1,25-Dihydroxy level, which is basically the free T version of vitamin D.

I have a feeling that if everyone was being tested for their active form of vitamin D instead of the storage form, or being tested for both ideally, we would see waaaayyyyyyyy less of the population come back deficient. Morley Robbins goes into great detail about this.

 

[Will Brink]

Just like total testosterone and free testosterone, there's a test for the storage vitamin D, and the active level of vitamin D. 99% of people are only being tested for the storage form (Vitamin D, 25-OH). Which is like just testing for total testosterone without knowing your free T level. What everyone should be testing for, alongside the storage form, is their Vitamin D, 1,25-Dihydroxy level, which is basically the free T version of vitamin D.

I have a feeling that if everyone was being tested for their active form of vitamin D instead of the storage form, or being tested for both ideally, we would see waaaayyyyyyyy less of the population come back deficient. Morley Robbins goes into great detail about this.

A good point. It's difficult to get people to just test 25OHD, but that's a good idea for people looking to further dial in, get more info, on their overall D status. I have not had a Vitamin D, 1,25-Dihydroxy level done myself. I should do that myself some time.

 

[Gman86]

A good point. It's difficult to get people to just test 25OHD, but that's a good idea for people looking to further dial in, get more info, on their overall D status. I have not had a Vitamin D, 1,25-Dihydroxy level done myself. I should do that myself some time.

Ye definitely. I just started doing it myself not too long ago. Just had labs done two days ago which included it. I'm curious to see what my levels come back at now that I'm only taking 2,000iu's EOD mixed with getting sunlight almost everyday.

Since we now know free T is what's important to test, and now are learning about the importance of active vitamin D, makes me wonder if free E2 is going to eventually become the gold standard for testing E2 levels.

 

[Will Brink]

Ye definitely. I just started doing it myself not too long ago. Just had labs done two days ago which included it. I'm curious to see what my levels come back at now that I'm only taking 2,000iu's EOD mixed with getting sunlight almost everyday.

Since we now know free T is what's important to test, and now are learning about the importance of active vitamin D, makes me wonder if free E2 is going to eventually become the gold standard for testing E2 levels.

I don't see that many labs offering that test. No doubt will increase now that it's importance is gets better known. There does appear to be some debate as to the value of of testing 1,25-Dihydroxy as an indicator of D status in healthy people however:

"Many practitioners become confused when ordering a vitamin D test. Because 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D is the active form of vitamin D, many practitioners think that measuring 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D is an accurate means to estimate vitamin D stores and test for vitamin D deficiency, which is incorrect. Current Endocrine Society guidelines recommend screening for vitamin D deficiency in individuals at risk for deficiency. Serum levels of 1,25-dihyroxyvitamin D have little or no relationship to vitamin D stores but rather are regulated primarily by parathyroid hormone levels, which in turn are regulated by calcium and/or vitamin D. In vitamin D deficiency, 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D levels go up, not down. Unregulated production of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D (i.e., sarcoidosis, granulomatous diseases) is an uncommon cause of hypercalcemia; this should be suspected if blood calcium levels are high and parathyroid hormone levels are low and confirmed by measurement of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D. The enzyme that activates vitamin D is produced in the kidney, so blood levels of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D are sometimes of interest in patients on dialysis or with end-stage kidney disease. There are few other circumstances, if any, where 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D testing would be helpful. Serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels may be overused, but when trying to assess vitamin D stores or diagnose vitamin D deficiency (or toxicity), 25-hydroxyvitamin D is the correct test."

https://www.aafp.org/afp/recommendations/viewRecommendation.htm?recommendationId=140

 

[Gman86]

I don't see that many labs offering that test. No doubt will increase now that it's importance is gets better known. There does appear to be some debate as to the value of of testing 1,25-Dihydroxy as an indicator of D status in healthy people however:

"Many practitioners become confused when ordering a vitamin D test. Because 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D is the active form of vitamin D, many practitioners think that measuring 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D is an accurate means to estimate vitamin D stores and test for vitamin D deficiency, which is incorrect. Current Endocrine Society guidelines recommend screening for vitamin D deficiency in individuals at risk for deficiency. Serum levels of 1,25-dihyroxyvitamin D have little or no relationship to vitamin D stores but rather are regulated primarily by parathyroid hormone levels, which in turn are regulated by calcium and/or vitamin D. In vitamin D deficiency, 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D levels go up, not down. Unregulated production of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D (i.e., sarcoidosis, granulomatous diseases) is an uncommon cause of hypercalcemia; this should be suspected if blood calcium levels are high and parathyroid hormone levels are low and confirmed by measurement of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D. The enzyme that activates vitamin D is produced in the kidney, so blood levels of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D are sometimes of interest in patients on dialysis or with end-stage kidney disease. There are few other circumstances, if any, where 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D testing would be helpful. Serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels may be overused, but when trying to assess vitamin D stores or diagnose vitamin D deficiency (or toxicity), 25-hydroxyvitamin D is the correct test."

https://www.aafp.org/afp/recommendations/viewRecommendation.htm?recommendationId=140

Very interesting. I’m pretty sure Morley Robbins goes into depth on why testing the active form is still what you want. I’m honestly way too dumb to explain why. But after everything I’ve learned about vitamin D, my gut tells me that everyone can’t be as deficient as we all are. Literally like everyone is deficient, no matter how healthy or great people feel. Most of them still come back low on the storage form. Which makes me think that testing the storage form is just not the correct way to test for vitamin d status. I would still test for it, but not without testing the active form as well. Again, Morley goes into detail about this stuff, and actually knows what he’s talking about. Definitely listen to his stuff and make your own conclusions. This is where I currently stand on the subject, but my views are constantly changing as new information comes in.