Hi everyone

[Propionato]

Hi everyone (I'm Spanish, I hope my English isn't too bad). I am 44 years old and my libido and erections are no longer what they used to be. I do not have a diagnosed hypogonadism. In the near future I will have an analysis done, but I have no intention of going to see a specialist.

For some time I have been wondering if exogenous testosterone could be an ally for me. I've been reading the forum for a while and I see that there are so many things that could go wrong that every time it seems to me a worse idea to put my axis at stake.

On the other hand, the usual protocol of starting with 100-200 mg weekly has always seemed very aggressive to me. If I were to try exogenous testosterone I would start with a much smaller dose, which almost does not suppress my endogenous testosterone. Over time it would go up little by little if all goes well.

That's all for now, this post is just to say hello. Good protocols.

 

[Systemlord]

Welcome @Propionato.

If I were to try exogenous testosterone I would start with a much smaller dose, which almost does not suppress my endogenous testosterone.

That’s not how it works, exogenous T suppresses the HPTA at any dosage. The endocrine society recommends 75-100 mg weekly, not aggressive by any means.

I've been reading the forum for a while and I see that there are so many things that could go wrong that every time it seems to me a worse idea to put my axis at stake.

These forum experiences are NOT a-typical, the majority of TRT cases are very positive, you’ll only find the minority having problems and you’ll read about it right here.

I do not have a diagnosed hypogonadism.

Your HPTA axis is already diseased, as in broken, and will not serve you well going into the latter half of your life.

 

[madman]

Hi everyone (I'm Spanish, I hope my English isn't too bad). I am 44 years old and my libido and erections are no longer what they used to be. I do not have a diagnosed hypogonadism. In the near future I will have an analysis done, but I have no intention of going to see a specialist.

For some time I have been wondering if exogenous testosterone could be an ally for me. I've been reading the forum for a while and I see that there are so many things that could go wrong that every time it seems to me a worse idea to put my axis at stake.

On the other hand, the usual protocol of starting with 100-200 mg weekly has always seemed very aggressive to me. If I were to try exogenous testosterone I would start with a much smaller dose, which almost does not suppress my endogenous testosterone. Over time it would go up little by little if all goes well.

That's all for now, this post is just to say hello. Good protocols.

Welcome to Excel.

You need a thorough set of labs before even considering jumping on T!

Blood work should be done for TT, FT, estradiol, SHBG, DHT, prolactin, Vit D DHEA-S, LH/FSH, PSA, full thyroid panel (TSH, Free T3, Free T4, Reverse T3, antibodies), salivary cortisol (Four Specimens), lipids, CMP, CBC, and CRP.

I know it may seem overwhelming but blood work is critical in order to see if you truly have low or low/normal free testosterone.

Although decreased libido/loss of erections are common symptoms of low-T they are both multi-factorial and low-T is not the only factor.

Trust me on this one!

Dysfunction thyroid/adrenals can easily mimic low-T symptoms let alone have a negative effect on libido/erectile function.

If you are concerned about shutting down our hpta with the use of exogenous T then your only option would be Natesto which will have the least impact.

It is in and out of your system quickly due to the extremely short half-life.

Keep in mind any form of exogenous T other than Natesto will have a significant impact on the shutdown of the hpta even doses <100mg/week.

Going to hammer this home here and again you need to get blood work done!

Microdosing Enanthate

Thank you all for the responses. Even though my FT is mid-range and TT is high, I would be considered over dosed? You have no idea where your FT level truly sat as I highly doubt it was tested using an accurate assay. With a whopping TT 1420 ng/dL even with your high SHBG 53.4 nmol/L I would...

www.excelmale.com

Microdosing Enanthate

The results are in - these are labs after 25 days of .1 Enanthate IM daily in the AM. I know these aren’t stabilized, but it’s a good baseline on levels 1/2 way through.

www.excelmale.com

Microdosing Enanthate

The results are in - these are labs after 25 days of .1 Enanthate IM daily in the AM. I know these aren’t stabilized, but it’s a good baseline on levels 1/2 way through.

www.excelmale.com

 

[madman]

Welcome @Propionato.

That’s not how it works, exogenous T suppresses the HPTA at any dosage. The endocrine society recommends 75-100 mg weekly, not aggressive by any means.

These forum experiences are NOT a-typical, the majority of TRT cases are very positive, you’ll only find the minority having problems and you’ll read about it right here.


Your HPTA axis is already diseased, as in broken, and will not serve you well going into the latter half of your life.

This is a given?

LOL!

Never even had blood work done.

 

[madman]

Hi everyone (I'm Spanish, I hope my English isn't too bad). I am 44 years old and my libido and erections are no longer what they used to be. I do not have a diagnosed hypogonadism. In the near future I will have an analysis done, but I have no intention of going to see a specialist.

For some time I have been wondering if exogenous testosterone could be an ally for me. I've been reading the forum for a while and I see that there are so many things that could go wrong that every time it seems to me a worse idea to put my axis at stake.

On the other hand, the usual protocol of starting with 100-200 mg weekly has always seemed very aggressive to me. If I were to try exogenous testosterone I would start with a much smaller dose, which almost does not suppress my endogenous testosterone. Over time it would go up little by little if all goes well.

That's all for now, this post is just to say hello. Good protocols.

Truth About Testosterone and Your Libido

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/truth-testosterone-libido-185000725.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw&tsrc=twtr As an expert on andrology and sexual dysfunctions, urologist Andrew Y. Sun, M.D., sees plenty of patients who’re struggling with low libido. And most are pretty sure they already...

www.excelmale.com

 

[t_spacemonkey]

greetings to Spain my fav EU country (I'm from DE).
my libido increased from 1x a week (when wife insisted) to 5x a week. I suggest to start at 150mg/Cypionate a week, or even better, daily propionate if you can get it. (divide 150/7)

 

[madman]

greetings to Spain my fav EU country (I'm from DE).
my libido increased from 1x a week (when wife insisted) to 5x a week. I suggest to start at 150mg/Cypionate a week, or even better, daily propionate if you can get it. (divide 150/7)

Are you kidding me here?

Piss poor advice as the OP has not even had blood work done!

 

[madman]

greetings to Spain my fav EU country (I'm from DE).
my libido increased from 1x a week (when wife insisted) to 5x a week. I suggest to start at 150mg/Cypionate a week, or even better, daily propionate if you can get it. (divide 150/7)

Starting dose 150 mg TC/week let alone 150 mg TP split into daily injections is overkill!

LMFAO!

Again the OP has no clue where his T levels sit as he never had blood work done.

Ridiculous to tell someone to jump on T just because they are struggling with libido/erectile function.

Go push that on one of those BRO forums which you most likely frequent judging by your posts on here.

 

[madman]

greetings to Spain my fav EU country (I'm from DE).
my libido increased from 1x a week (when wife insisted) to 5x a week. I suggest to start at 150mg/Cypionate a week, or even better, daily propionate if you can get it. (divide 150/7)

I am 44 years old and my libido and erections are no longer what they used to be. I do not have a diagnosed hypogonadism. In the near future I will have an analysis done, but I have no intention of going to see a specialist.


Nuff said!

 

[Systemlord]

Your HPTA axis is already diseased, as in broken, and will not serve you well going into the latter half of your life.

This is a given?

LOL!

Never even had blood work done.

Apparently part of my post got cut out, it was supposed to be, “if you have low-T, your HPTA is already diseased, as in broken, and will not serve you going into the latter half of your life”.

 

[madman]

Apparently part of my post got cut out, it was supposed to be, “if you have low-T, your HPTA is already diseased, as in broken, and will not serve you going into the latter half of your life”.

Okay fair enough.

Seems to be a common theme around here though.

Need to start double-checking what you post on here.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

Starting dose 150 mg TC/week let alone 150 mg TP split into daily injections is overkill!

LMFAO!

Again the OP has no clue where his T levels sit as he never had blood work done.

Ridiculous to tell someone to jump on T just because they are struggling with libido/erectile function.

Go push that on one of those BRO forums which you most likely frequent judging by your posts on here.

no you misunderstood this guy. he clearly asked for a good protocol. this is a good one. his is *probably* low T and I don't expect him to be stupid enough to start juicing without getting blood work. not at 44

 

[madman]

no you misunderstood this guy. he clearly asked for a good protocol. this is a good one. his is *probably* low T and I don't expect him to be stupid enough to start juicing without getting blood work. not at 44

Ridiculous you have no clue what you are talking about!

Anyone with sense in their head would not be dishing out such especially to someone that has never even had his blood work done to even see if he truly has low-T.


On the other hand, the usual protocol of starting with 100-200 mg weekly has always seemed very aggressive to me. If I were to try exogenous testosterone I would start with a much smaller dose, which almost does not suppress my endogenous testosterone. Over time it would go up little by little if all goes well.

He has no clue if he has low-T let alone if his issues (libido/erectile function) are due to such!

Dysfunction thyroid/adrenals can wreak havoc on a man's libido/erectile function and top it off many other things can have a negative impact.

Yet you are telling this guy to jump on 150 mg TC/week.

Even more ridiculous when it comes to that 150 mg TP split into dailies.

LMFAO!

 

[madman]

no you misunderstood this guy. he clearly asked for a good protocol. this is a good one. his is *probably* low T and I don't expect him to be stupid enough to start juicing without getting blood work. not at 44

Again!


post #3

You need a thorough set of labs before even considering jumping on T!

Blood work should be done for TT, FT, estradiol, SHBG, DHT, prolactin, Vit D DHEA-S, LH/FSH, PSA, full thyroid panel (TSH, Free T3, Free T4, Reverse T3, antibodies), salivary cortisol (Four Specimens), lipids, CMP, CBC, and CRP.

I know it may seem overwhelming but blood work is critical in order to see if you truly have low or low/normal free testosterone.



Even then if it turns out that the OP is suffering from low T symptoms due to low/low-normal FT levels telling him or anyone in the same situation to start on 150 mg TC let alone 150 mg TP split into dailies is overkill.

Start low and go slow we say as we want to see how the body reacts to testosterone and driving up someone's levels too high off the hop is a big mistake as this can easily
lead to numerous issues.

The standard starting dose is 100 mg TC or TE/week or better yet 50 mg T split twice weekly.

Lots of time for someone to increase their dose/injection frequency if need be.

TP is a piss poor choice off the hop as jumping right into daily injections is not needed.

Do some men choose to jump on dailies from the get go sure but it is far and few.

Seems like you are one of those men caught upon that more T is better mentality.

 

[Propionato]

Thank you all for answering, I cleared up a few things. About 6 years ago I did two tests. In one the TT was just over 400ng/dl, in the other it was slightly above 500ng/dl. They are the only data I remember and I can't find the analysis. The specialist told me that I was in range and prescribed cialis. By the way, I also remember that my thyroid was perfect.

Right now I feel more or less the same as then, perhaps slightly better thanks to the fact that my work is more physical and I am fitter, and that I supplement better. I take zinc and creatine regularly, and occasionally magnesium, tribulus, ginseng and vitamin D. I am also starting to take boron.
From the zinc, creatine, magnesium and tribulus I see a small improvement in my libido and erections. From ginseng sometimes I have noticed it and other times not. I have never noticed anything from taking vitamin D.
In any case, I have to do an analysis.

As I was saying, according to the specialist at the time, based on my symptoms and the test data, I don't have ED, let alone need TRT. What's more, maybe a lot of people who are on TRT would want to be like I am now. Others are sure much better.

However, I do not claim to be faithful to a medical consensus, which will probably change over time. I intend to live with the best quality of life possible. If I could improve my libido and erections with exogenous testosterone, sustainably over time, I would.

Today I am in the learning process. Before making a decision I have to carefully weigh the risks and possible benefits.

My problems are:
Libido: Regular (it seems to be within the normal range for my age)
Erections: Regular (it seems that they are within the normal range for my age)

But on the other hand:
-Dream: Good.
-Mood: Good.
-Concentration: Good.
-Energy: Good.

If I go on TRT it could improve my libido and my erections, but they could also get worse. Plus it could make everything I have good worse. So even if I'm sure I currently have low testosterone, going on TRT is something I have to think about a lot.

The most disturbing thing about the TRT issue is that no one seems to understand libido. From what I've read on this forum and elsewhere, after starting TRT there comes a honeymoon period when everything is wonderful, lasting for weeks or months. Once the honeymoon is over, life is no longer wonderful, in any case the sensations can be good, but also bad or even very bad. It seems to occur with all protocols, even when all the variables measured in the analyzes appear optimized.

I can't ask a specialist how to keep the honeymoon indefinitely, because he doesn't know how to do it.

From what I have read in this forum there are certain patterns that do not always occur, but do occur very frequently:

-Starting a TRT protocol raises libido.
-Starting to take HCG raises libido.
-When a protocol that initially worked stops working, interrupting it raises libido.
-Increasing the dose of T in a TRT protocol that initially worked but stopped working increases libido.
-Lowering the dose of T in a TRT protocol that initially worked but stopped working increases libido.
-When you take HCG regularly and after having lost your libido you stop taking it, this raises your libido.
-Prop T, with its peaks and valleys in the same day, has a greater effect on libido than other longer esters.

For some reason, protocol changes, dose changes, ester changes, peaks and valleys, and occasional breaks improve libido, or at least many times it is. Perhaps for a protocol to be successful in the long term, it has to incorporate the variable change, of dose, of ester, incorporate the peaks and valleys in the same day with prop T, perhaps changing the brand of T will help. Obviously I don't know, but these are patterns I see when I read to you.

I also see that it is normal to take weekly doses of testosterone equal to or greater than those of a vigorous twenty-something (100mg/week or more). Perhaps this is not a good idea, perhaps not all bodies can take advantage of these doses in the long term. Most TRT users are not young.

Go ahead, I am ignorant on this subject, if today I start taking exogenous testosterone I would start with taking 1mg, only one milligram, of a mixture of prop T and another longer ester, and see if I notice anything. If all goes well little by little I would increase the dose and frequency. I would have my sights set on a protocol of daily subcutaneous injections with a weekly intake of much less than 100mg/week that would incorporate changing all of the above, ester, dosage, daily peaks and troughs (part of the testosterone would be propionate) and perhaps also T's brand

Of course any knowledge or experience regarding what has been said is welcome.

greetings to Spain my fav EU country (I'm from DE).

Deutschland, interesting country!

 

[Systemlord]

About 6 years ago I did two tests. In one the TT was just over 400ng/dl, in the other it was slightly above 500ng/dl.

Low-T isn’t defined by Total T, the symptoms follows the Free T, the unbound, active portion of testosterone, which crosses the cell membrane and then onto the androgen receptors.

From what I've read on this forum and elsewhere, after starting TRT there comes a honeymoon period when everything is wonderful, lasting for weeks or months. Once the honeymoon is over, life is no longer wonderful, in any case the sensations can be good, but also bad or even very bad.

You’re only reading the bad experiences and none of the mostly positive experiences. It sounds like you’re far from deficient, and maybe bordering on suboptimal testosterone.

We’ll never know since your “specialist” didn’t check the Free T.

A lot of doctors get this wrong, in range doesn’t mean it’s healthy. The normal ranges are meant to severe as an idea of what normal “might” be for an individual.

Everyone’s normal ranges a little bit different, otherwise everyone would have the same levels of all biomarkers.

 

[aneuman]

Thank you all for answering, I cleared up a few things. About 6 years ago I did two tests. In one the TT was just over 400ng/dl, in the other it was slightly above 500ng/dl.

Your labs are good.

My problems are:
Libido: Regular (it seems to be within the normal range for my age)
Erections: Regular (it seems that they are within the normal range for my age)

But on the other hand:
-Dream: Good.
-Mood: Good.
-Concentration: Good.
-Energy: Good.

Your symptoms are "within the normal range for [your] age"

Better is the enemy of good. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

From what I have read in this forum there are certain patterns that do not always occur, but do occur very frequently:


-Starting a TRT protocol raises libido.

Not necessarily, not for everyone. It can also have side effects or exacerbates existing co-morbidities such as anxiety, GERD, etc.

-Starting to take HCG raises libido.

Not necessarily, not for everyone, in some cases just for a couple of weeks.

-When a protocol that initially worked stops working, interrupting it raises libido.

Not necessarily, not always, not for everyone. Interrupting protocols wreaks havoc with many other hormones with unforeseen consequences.

-Increasing the dose of T in a TRT protocol that initially worked but stopped working increases libido.
-Lowering the dose of T in a TRT protocol that initially worked but stopped working increases libido.
-When you take HCG regularly and after having lost your libido you stop taking it, this raises your libido.
-Prop T, with its peaks and valleys in the same day, has a greater effect on libido than other longer esters.

Not necessarily, not always, not for everyone, see my comment above.

Always remember the great Miguel the Unamunu: "Don't believe everything you read on the internet"

I applaud you for trying to educate yourself and doing so by reading what's probably the best forum on the internet for this topic, but keep in mind a couple of things:
- The people that come here are not representative of the men treated for TRT. This forum is skewed towards people for whom standard protocols don't work
- What you hear here are anecdotes of people that frequently change too many variables at the same time, jump to conclusions to early (I'm guilty of both) or religious zealots that worship the god T
- Anonymity, allows for a degree of bragging, speculation and assertiveness that could be confusing and dangerous.

On the other hand, if you must be at the top of your game, and willing to take the risks to get it, then who am I to say otherwise?

Take my advice: don't take advise from me.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

From what I have read in this forum there are certain patterns that do not always occur, but do occur very frequently:

-Starting a TRT protocol raises libido.
-Starting to take HCG raises libido.
-When a protocol that initially worked stops working, interrupting it raises libido.
-Increasing the dose of T in a TRT protocol that initially worked but stopped working increases libido.
-Lowering the dose of T in a TRT protocol that initially worked but stopped working increases libido.
-When you take HCG regularly and after having lost your libido you stop taking it, this raises your libido.
-Prop T, with its peaks and valleys in the same day, has a greater effect on libido than other longer esters.

For some reason, protocol changes, dose changes, ester changes, peaks and valleys, and occasional breaks improve libido, or at least many times it is. Perhaps for a protocol to be successful in the long term, it has to incorporate the variable change, of dose, of ester, incorporate the peaks and valleys in the same day with prop T, perhaps changing the brand of T will help. Obviously I don't know, but these are patterns I see when I read to you.

Actually, I would say this is a fairly accurate summarization of reports from this forum with regard to libido. Whether these are representative of the typical experience on TRT is up for debate.