Hello All- New Here

[JSmitty Fitness]

Hey everyone! I am 30 years old and on HCG monotherapy. I currently take 800iu's every other day along with 10mg of tamoxifen twice per day. I've been on mono for over a year and I've had some ups and downs. Trouble keeping my estradiol in check. Was put on way too much arimidex for a while and that messed with my head a lot. Would really like to hear from anyone else that has been or is currently on HCG mono. I'm excited this forum is available.

 

[Vettester Chris]

J, been meaning to say hi, and thank you for joining EM! Welcome to the community!!

I'm curious with how your testosterone numbers look on the HCG Mono program; both total serum & free? Also the E2 sensitive assay result would be good to see, as you mentioned you've had trouble keep this in check. I've read cases where "sometimes" intra-testicular E2 production can be problematic with the heavier HCG protocols, which in turn inhibits the effectiveness of any AI administration.

Also curious for the thinking behind the Tamox therapy in conjunction with HCG? Tamox, being a SERM (like Clomid) might be used when trying to promote LH secretion in the pituitary, BUT, obviously the HCG - 800iu/eod protocol is where you are getting the LH to promote endogenous testosterone. Thinking maybe you might be using it to mitigate receptor sensitivity in the nipple area as E2 surges? That's usually just a temporary thing, used sometimes in an estrogen rebound situation ... Hopefully the Tamox isn't being considered as the compound to counter aromatization?

It's definitely interesting, hoping we can learn more from you ... Thanks again for signing up!!

 

[JSmitty Fitness]

Hi! My total test on my current dose was 1026(range 348-1147), free t 16.5(range 8.7-25.1), and e2 not sensitive assay 56.5(range 7.6- 42.6). Using tamox to keep away gyno. We tried adex over the summer. At that time I was on 1000 iu 3 times per week and adex at 1mg per day. Which ive been told was way too much. I got off adex cause I was having major anxiety and panic attacks. 3 days a week shots I think were giving me high and low days. My e2 on adex and the hcg tested at 26.5 again not sensitive assay. For now I feel ok. Night time erections, some libido, no performance issues in the bedroom, energy could be better, anxiety is manageable(had that before going on anything), but I definitely dont feel that over all sense of well being I hear some people talk about being on test. I noticed I gained back a little fat or water retention going off the adex. Im willing to listen to any suggestions. Im afraid to go back on any amount of adex cause of the panic attacks and change in my mood. Thanks and look forward to learning a lot here.

 

[torrential]

Don't fear arimidex/anastrozole, at least not based on the experiences described above. Your earlier symptoms sound like estrogen crash, not anastrozole sensitivity.

Talk to your doctor about their overall treatment methodology and plan or find another practicioner who can do more than skim the package insert! 1mg/day is listed as the starting dose for the orignal recipients of this drug, women suffering from estrogen sensitive cancers. So many guys report being given that prescription at the beginning of treatment by a doc who eventually turns out to be not entirely familiar with how it all works. It's quite a lot for a male with what looks like a reasonable response to increase in T production.

 

[JSmitty Fitness]

Does anyone have suggestions for doctors in Maryland with experience? Also can anyone give me an example of what e2 should be at, not sensitive assay and what a reasonale dose of adex would be?

 

[Vettester Chris]

J, look at Defy Medical .. http://www.defymedical.com/ .. They can get you on the right track!

Oh my, 1mg/day!! Buddy, that's not like a kind of high dosage, that's potentially dangerous! If your E2 was still elevated after that protocol, then that to me indicates the E2 is intra-testicular aromatization, which as discussed above is unable to be effectively treated with an AI. Maybe you can clarify what your AI protocol was at the time of your labs?

I suspect your SHBG might be just a tad bit over the desired range (?) .. Free test is right about 1.6%, IMO would be good to see in the 2% to 3% range. One marker that usually can effect this Vitamin D, which is vital in so many aspects of supporting a well balanced protocol. You will find many members here that are therapeutic protocols, 5,000+ iu/day, or Drisdol 50,000/iu week and up ...

Back to the E2 ... I'd like to spin it if I could and tell you the assay you use is fine, but that wouldn't be right. That lab is designed for females, and there is a large variance in the measurement accuracy in comparison to the sensitive assay, when used to test men. The Labcorp "Sensitive" #140244 reference range is 3-70 pg/ml. You will tend to see many of us aim to fall in the 20pg - 35pg/ml range, or close thereof. I'd like to sugarcoat the other lab for you, but I can't .. If you're going aim to have an effective HRT protocol, you need to manage it with a sensitive or ultra-sensitive assay, anything else will just be winging it.

I know exactly what you're saying about "not having that overall sense of well being." Just keep in mind that testosterone is just one component when looking at the entire picture. Granted, an important component, but one of several. You will find the thyroid, adrenals, various vitamins & nutrients also play a large role, as does keeping other variables like RBC's & HCT in check.

The real secret is balance .. If one area is off balance, like the thyroid, you can sometimes find that the culprit originated with cortisol & the adrenals. That can be furthermore influenced by other factors that are not in balance. By the time you get on Test Replacement Therapy, many of these other variables are still problematic and need addressed.

Sounds like you need to reach out to a place that specializes in this topic. Look at Defy, you will find Jasen on here as well, as he is a Moderator. Hope some of this helps ...

 

[JSmitty Fitness]

You might have missed it earlier where I wrote, my E2 on the 1mg per day of adex was 26.5 when we tested it with the same range as the test above. Again not the sensitive assay but it was originally around the 90's when we decided to start the adex. So I don't believe Im resistant in any way. Not sure why it shot up so high in the first place because for several months prior to that test my E2 was just over the normal range. Even when my total test was way over 1500 my E2 was coming back around the 40's. I guess over time the estrogen builds up? I had Vitamin D checked with my physical which was 50 (range 30-100 ng/mL), and Thyroid 1.73 (Range 0.50-4.50 u[IU]/mL). My RBC and HCT was good and in normal ranges. My only issue with going to Defy would be they don't take insurance. My insurance covers my HCG and all the blood work and anything Ive needed so far. All I pay is my copay, so I dont want to lose that. If I knew exactly what tests I should be looking at I think my doctor would be willing to work with me to figure out whats going to work best for me. She seems very willing to help and try different things. I was the one who pushed to get off the adex completely because I was feeling so crappy.

 

[JSmitty Fitness]

Does Defy take insurance?? So far my insurance has covered my hcg, doctors appointment with just a copay, and all my blood work.

 

[JSmitty Fitness]

Does anyone have a suggestion for a doctor in maryland, delaware or new Jersey???

 

[Brian963]

Does Defy take insurance?? So far my insurance has covered my hcg, doctors appointment with just a copay, and all my blood work.

Hi JSmitty,
Defy doesn't take insurance. I believe you can submit the claim on your own. However, you can still have your labs completed using your insurance as Defy will email you the lab order. I searched for 9+ years for local physician to treat my low T without any luck. My primary doctor is dead set TRT so having access to Defy is a relief and to me well worth the related expense.