Heads or tales

[Mrs. Robinson]

Love to get some input on my husbands test results. He's not on any TRT protocol yet. 24 yr old, 6' 4", 180 lbs.

If there's a better way to attach the test results, let me know. Pdf wouldn't let me copy/paste accurately.

 

[Nashtide]

Love to get some input on my husbands test results. He's not on any TRT protocol yet. 24 yr old, 6' 4", 180 lbs.

If there's a better way to attach the test results, let me know. Pdf wouldn't let me copy/paste accurately.

Koo-koo-ka choo Mrs. Robinson I can't open the labs.

 

[Vince Carter]

Opened for me. Very low Free T and low E. 24 years and I wouldn't agree with TRT, perhaps a restart of low dose Clomid and HCG.
Id like to see more in the Thyroid...TSH is a rather poor indicator in and of itself as done here, if money allows you too:

TSH
Free T3
Free T4
Reverse T3
Antibodies
Iron
Ferritin

 

[Mrs. Robinson]

Koo-koo-ka choo Mrs. Robinson I can't open the labs.

Heh, somebody got my song reference. I converted to jpeg files, should be able to view these now.

 

[Mrs. Robinson]

Id like to see more in the Thyroid...

He's doubtful that he fits in the risk category for thyroid disorders, as he's nowhere near overweight, but I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to check into it. He just took the complete test panel that Defy recommended. Where do you recommend getting a thyroid panel done? I have little confidence in any local drs to properly address any of his hormone needs.

I've read a lot of negative reviews on Clomid on here. Do you think it would jump start his own T production or what is the advantage of it?

 

[Nashtide]

I agree with VC. Very low free T and E2. What symptoms is he experiencing? Starting TRT at his age is not a good idea unless there are extenuating circumstances. I would encourage a consult with Defy to nail down his options. Clomid is widely used with a lot of success when used properly and by the right type of patient.

 

[Mrs. Robinson]

I agree with VC. Very low free T and E2. What symptoms is he experiencing? Starting TRT at his age is not a good idea unless there are extenuating circumstances. I would encourage a consult with Defy to nail down his options. Clomid is widely used with a lot of success when used properly and by the right type of patient.

We will be consulting with Defy in the (hopefully) near future. He waited too long to schedule his consultation so he has to retake those blood tests His symptoms include fatigue, almost nonexistent sex drive (less than 1x per month), difficulty with becoming aroused (no trouble maintaining erections however), brain fog, and lack of motivation for anything, including getting treatment. This may be somewhat normal, not sure, but if by chance I convince him to get down to business 2x in one day, he's able to get an erection the 2nd time, but no orgasm.

 

[Nashtide]

We will be consulting with Defy in the (hopefully) near future. He waited too long to schedule his consultation so he has to retake those blood tests His symptoms include fatigue, almost nonexistent sex drive (less than 1x per month), difficulty with becoming aroused (no trouble maintaining erections however), brain fog, and lack of motivation for anything, including getting treatment. This may be somewhat normal, not sure, but if by chance I convince him to get down to business 2x in one day, he's able to get an erection the 2nd time, but no orgasm.

Interesting, that's a lot of symptoms. He has low T for sure, but I wouldn't get your hopes up for a miracle cure. The low E2 can be a culprit in the sexual issues. My experience being around this stuff for 3+ years is that TRT is not a panacea for sexual issues. Most guys see a real boost in energy, focus, drive, sleep, fat loss, muscle gain, etc. However, the libido, ED and orgasm issues seem to be hit or miss. There is more to libido than hormone levels. There is more to erections than hormone levels. You are in good hands with Defy and repeating lab work is a good thing. Keep us updated.

 

[Vince]

I agree with Vince Carter, low dose Clomid is definitely the way to go especially given his young age and low estrogen. He may not feel good at first but once he's able to get off of Clomid he should feel great.

A complete thyroid panel is a good idea to just in case there's issues with it.

 

[Mrs. Robinson]

Also I’ll add that he took a test last year that measured only total T, which was 449, so we’re looking at nearly a 100 pt drop in less than a year.

 

[Systemlord]

Low E2 will kill sexual desire, orgasim quality and usually erections if it gets low enough. No reputable doctor would give a young guy TRT without first trying other methods. Clomid can work for some, some see success in micro dosing.

The fact that he has erections I would say he probably doesn't have a thyroid issue, most definitely this is a testosterone issue. I still think it's a good idea to dot all your T's and test everything.

Testosterone levels do fluctuate, a perfectly healthy man can see as much as 200-300 difference.

 

[Nashtide]

Also I’ll add that he took a test last year that measured only total T, which was 449, so we’re looking at nearly a 100 pt drop in less than a year.

Natural levels of T fluctuate in normal males. Many docs will require two low T labs to confirm a diagnosis. Your husband has pretty severe symptoms for his age. You are on the right track and hopefully Defy will be able to help.

 

[Vince Carter]

He's doubtful that he fits in the risk category for thyroid disorders, as he's nowhere near overweight, but I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to check into it. He just took the complete test panel that Defy recommended. Where do you recommend getting a thyroid panel done? I have little confidence in any local drs to properly address any of his hormone needs.

I've read a lot of negative reviews on Clomid on here. Do you think it would jump start his own T production or what is the advantage of it?

Clomid of the wrong dose like 25mg/D (or more) causes lots of Estrogen problems, among other sides. SOmething more like 12.5mg EOD is much less likely to have problems.

TSH is a really poor indicator of Thyroid function, so there's that. If that's what you have then it's OK but if you can afford the added tests, would be nice to see given 24 years old.

 

[DragonBits]

I had similar numbers when i was 43, I started TRT when I was 57.

I went off TRT and took 50 mg clomid every other day, it did boost my TT from 320>478 and my E2 from <5 to 27.6. It did increase sperm production.

It seemed to do nothing for energy, libido, mood, etc.

'I mention the ages because it may be more effective in a younger man.

A lot depends on whether you want children. (You can also "bank" his sperm.)

 

[Vince Carter]

Clomid is also really only appropriate in a guy that is Secondary hypo. If the problem is the testes Clomid, or HCG, aren't going to be effective.

 

[DragonBits]

Clomid is also really only appropriate in a guy that is Secondary hypo. If the problem is the testes Clomid, or HCG, aren't going to be effective.

True, but people can be both, a little of one and a little of the other. Maybe if I had stayed on Clomid longer that 3 months my testos would have continued to increase.

But I am thinking of the study that indicates while Clomid, CC, is effect it doesn't seem to increase libido.
=================================================
Results:
Serum total testosterone increased from pretreatment levels in all men (P < 0.05), regardless of therapy type (TST: 281–541 ng/dL, CC: 235.5–438 ng/dL).


Conclusions:
Both TST and CC are effective medications in treating hypogonadism; however, our study indicates that TST is more effective in raising serum testosterone levels and improving hypogonadal symptoms. CC remains a viable treatment modality for hypogonadal men but its adverse effect on libido warrant further study.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5508437/

 

[Nashtide]

As I said earlier, libido is complex and TRT seems to be hit or miss with regard to fixing libido and ED issues.

 

[Vince Carter]

If there's a testicular problem, you're not going to get around that with. Studies or not.

 

[Mrs. Robinson]

Darn, you guys are bringing my hopes down. To be honest, libido is the main area that I really want to see improvement in, but him feeling better overall is most important.

Is there a way to determine if he is primary or secondary hypogonadal? He hasn’t had any injuries to the testes that he knows of anyway. Could a head injury trigger it possibly? (He suffered a 20’ ft fall 6 yrs ago that resulted in a gash on his head and a c5 vertebrae fracture).

We do plan on future kids, tentatively planning on trying this winter. Sperm banking is something we’d really rather not do unless absolutely necessary. Of course it is possible he already has low sperm count, we’ve never tried to conceive yet.

 

[Nashtide]

Darn, you guys are bringing my hopes down. To be honest, libido is the main area that I really want to see improvement in, but him feeling better overall is most important.

Is there a way to determine if he is primary or secondary hypogonadal? He hasn’t had any injuries to the testes that he knows of anyway. Could a head injury trigger it possibly? (He suffered a 20’ ft fall 6 yrs ago that resulted in a gash on his head and a c5 vertebrae fracture).

We do plan on future kids, tentatively planning on trying this winter. Sperm banking is something we’d really rather not do unless absolutely necessary. Of course it is possible he already has low sperm count, we’ve never tried to conceive yet.

I'm certainly not trying to bring you down, it's just that libido is a tricky little fellow. Now, this subject usually comes up with older guys, so my thoughts may be moot. TRT was a life changer for me, but I always had a healthy libido and no ED issues. I hope that he becomes a horny teenager! Btw, I have to ask...are you older than him (Mrs. Robinson)