Hcg monotherapy, age 26. Injection questions

[lookingforhelp]

After my last blood results of

Total Testosterone: 14 nmol/l
Free Test : 217 pmol/l (225-714)
E2: 114 nmol/l
SHBG: 46 Nmol/l

I have decided to embark on a trial of HCG. My doc first recommended Sustanon 250 roughly around every week to ten days to begin with. After much thought and deliberation I decided I was more comfortable trying a small dose of HCG to begin with to see if this helped.

He understood me and agreed this was a good way to go. I will add that I have finally found a brilliant Dr who is very knowledgable! A UK Doc prescribing HCG? Yes I know! very rare. He attends many conventions around Europe regarding male health and is in disarray at the way Uk endocrinologists treat male hormones. He went on to tell me that at my age (26) I am going to be feeling quite unwell at those levels and let me tell you, I do. My last endocrinologist told me and my GP i should see a Pyschiatrist as he feels like it is something ''hypothalamic''. Its a complete joke. He also told me estrogen has no known use in men and doesnt matter during TRT......


Anyway, my new doc initially mentioned clomid to begin with but I was hesitant as i had read about eye floaters etc and other nasty side effects. In the long term I may reconsider but I feel like things cant get much worse than they already are and HCG is a more natural approach to begin with.

He gave me a prescription for PREGNYL 1500iu and told me to take 3 times a week. Preferably Monday, Wed, Friday. He said you can start at 500iu every injection or 300iu if im more comfortable. I want to start at 300.

The PREGNYL comes in two ampoules which you crack the top of then mix the water with the powder. However, how the hell do i measure this into syringes for the week? He did explain briefly but i didnt take it all in straight away.

He has given me syringes and two types of needles.

I have green 21G x1 and a half inch. (0.80x40mm) to draw the water and mix them with.

I have blue 23G x 1 inch (0.60x25mm) to inject with.

Are these too big? He mentioned doing intramuscular and gave me a diagram for the leg, however, from what ive read you can use smaller needles and do subcutaneous. Apparently this is less painful

Im not thrilled on injecting myself so would like the most pain free needle size possible.

Your help would be greatly appreciated.

Oh my new Dr is Dr Savage of the Leger Clinic Doncaster.

 

[johndoesmith]

After my last blood results of

Total Testosterone: 14 nmol/l
Free Test : 217 pmol/l (225-714)
E2: 114 nmol/l
SHBG: 46 Nmol/l

I have decided to embark on a trial of HCG. My doc first recommended Sustanon 250 roughly around every week to ten days to begin with. After much thought and deliberation I decided I was more comfortable trying a small dose of HCG to begin with to see if this helped.

He understood me and agreed this was a good way to go. I will add that I have finally found a brilliant Dr who is very knowledgable! A UK Doc prescribing HCG? Yes I know! very rare. He attends many conventions around Europe regarding male health and is in disarray at the way Uk endocrinologists treat male hormones. He went on to tell me that at my age (26) I am going to be feeling quite unwell at those levels and let me tell you, I do. My last endocrinologist told me and my GP i should see a Pyschiatrist as he feels like it is something ''hypothalamic''. Its a complete joke. He also told me estrogen has no known use in men and doesnt matter during TRT......


Anyway, my new doc initially mentioned clomid to begin with but I was hesitant as i had read about eye floaters etc and other nasty side effects. In the long term I may reconsider but I feel like things cant get much worse than they already are and HCG is a more natural approach to begin with.

He gave me a prescription for PREGNYL 1500iu and told me to take 3 times a week. Preferably Monday, Wed, Friday. He said you can start at 500iu every injection or 300iu if im more comfortable. I want to start at 300.

The PREGNYL comes in two ampoules which you crack the top of then mix the water with the powder. However, how the hell do i measure this into syringes for the week? He did explain briefly but i didnt take it all in straight away.

He has given me syringes and two types of needles.

I have green 21G x1 and a half inch. (0.80x40mm) to draw the water and mix them with.

I have blue 23G x 1 inch (0.60x25mm) to inject with.

Are these too big? He mentioned doing intramuscular and gave me a diagram for the leg, however, from what ive read you can use smaller needles and do subcutaneous. Apparently this is less painful

Im not thrilled on injecting myself so would like the most pain free needle size possible.

Your help would be greatly appreciated.

Oh my new Dr is Dr Savage of the Leger Clinic Doncaster.

First off, post your full labs with REFERENCE RANGES. We have no way of knowing if you can use HCG mono based on your posted results.

Your doc seems great. You have the option of TRT if hcg mono doesn't work.

There is absolutely no need for those gigantic harpoons for needles, ESPECIALLY with hcg. Get some 30g insulin syringes and go subq.

 

[CSI007]

I have never been a fan of needles, but I managed to give them to myself sub-q in the stomach after my wife did it for me a couple of times. It's not bad and there is very little, if any, pain at all. Occasionally you might hit a nerve (rare) but if you do just back out and hit another spot. I use a 31 gauge needle to inject with now but I have used as large as a 28 gauge with no real difference in comfort between the two.

Swap the area with alcohol, pinch/raise some skin, push the needle in at a 45 degree angle and inject.

Good luck!

 

[lookingforhelp]

reference ranges:

Total testosterone: 9-30 nmol/l
Free Test: 225-714 pmol/l
E2: 98> No upper range
SHBG: 16-50 nmol/l

Thanks for your advice. I just took a look at the needles. Look a little bit overkill. Going to try and find some higher gauge!

 

[lookingforhelp]

Thanks for the support!

Could you tell me the length of the needles? or the exact sizing rather than just the gauge. It would be a massive help.

 

[Vince Carter]

29g is typical 1/2" in length, that's the most common syringe used around here.

 

[lookingforhelp]

Thanks. Ill try and get hold of them tomorrow.

Would you have a recommendation for a needle size for mixing?

Also any ideas regarding splitting the 1500iu into smaller amount?

 

[Vince Carter]

Most pharmacy's send a mixing "kit" with their HCG...bact water and a large syringe in the 20g/10mL syringe for drawing out the water and adding it to the HCG. Its my opinion that in a monotherapy protocol that 300iu 3X per week would be rather small almost inneffective dose. You can certainly try it.

 

[lookingforhelp]

I just wanted to start small and increase if necessary. I didnt want to raise E2 too quickly. What would you say was a recommended starting dose?

The HCG in the UK seems to usually be "Pregnyl". I have the smallest dose which is 1500iu. It comes with two ampoules, one with the bact water and one with the powder. You snap the top off both , suck the bact water up the syringe, then into the powder ampoule. Its from that point im a little stuck as how to split it accurately. Doc says I can split it into three syringes for the week.

Oh and no syringe supplied for mixing.

 

[CSI007]

I initially had decent success on 500iu every 3.5 days. Then it went down hill after about 3 months or so. I then increased to 400iu ED and only got my serum T up to about 20 or so points (mid 300s). I think your on the right track to start out at lower doses but it might not be enough. Keep in mind that once your natural production shuts down if you are not able to get your testicles to produce enough T with the amount of HCG you are on you may feel worse and your values might even drop more. My physiology was likely compromised for a variety of reasons and I am almost twice as old as you are though.

 

[lookingforhelp]

Thanks CSI
Its got to the point where Ive had to weigh up the pros and cons.

At the moment, im sexually dead, no libido, no energy, soft testicles from time to time, uncomfortable penis, feels like no blood flow, muscle wasteage, weak, poor sleep (wake up feeling exhausted and achey). Ive been off work for two years now with this, I cant function, i somehow became a father and met an amazing woman and we have gotten engaged. Ive got so much to live for but it all feels for nothing when I cant function.

I had my own successful construction business before this happened to me. Ive got to the point where Im getting worse and worse, I feel like I dont want to waste all of my 20's like this. Ill never get it back. So for me im thinking, **** this Ive just got to grab this condition by the horns and take back control of my life! I want to feel normal again. It couldnt get much worse, yes TRT is usually for life, yes that sucks, but lifes for living and i cant do it like this. I want to be the best father I can be.

So basically what I am saying is my natural production sucks anyway...

Sorry for the emotional outbreak! Im just at my wits end with all this, I am sure youve been there. Thanks for all your support.

 

[CSI007]

No need to apologize. Many of us here are in the same boat that you are or were. Believe me, I know how you feel!

 

[trt4me]

First explain to her what you are going through and that you are just now starting to handle it.
Second that's a low dose for Hcg mono.
Talk to the dr about time frames , expectations and milestones.
Hcg mono doesn't work for many but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be tried and also it is used as a diagnosis to see if your primary.
Read up on restarts because at your age you have a better chance than most to have a good one. Also your labs are limited. You need a full set including thyroid, lh, fsh and others.

 

[lookingforhelp]

Ive spoken to my Doc about everything and I just said Im a little anxious about going on full blown trt so we both felt HCG was a good starting point.

Over the span of being ill ive had every test imaginable. Ive had MRIs and stimulation tests. Been down the whole adrenal thyroid thing. Thyroid meds helped briefly, I was trying to clear RT3 but for some strange reason lowered my testosterone even more? My cortisol and thyroid last time checked were nearing top of range for free t3 and free t4 so im comfortable with them at the moment. Not to say a problem wont rear its head with these once starting trt.

 

[Re-Ride]

I hope you'll try an axis restart. You might have been exposed to a toxic chemical/fumes at your former construction business or elsewhere. You may have already cleaned up your diet but that's the next thing to try. Check out Nelson's food shopping suggestions and great menus.

250-350 IU every other day might be a good starting point. Be patient and give the Leydigs time to respond, 3-6 weeks before trying everyday.

Remember that unlike t-cyp whatever endogenous T is produced from hCG stim disappears real fast from your body. I would increase frequency before upping the dose. Everyone is different. Don't rule out low dose daily. If you suddenly start to get "over-activated" do the non-intuitive thing and back off to find the minimum effective dose.

Try getting a sterile sealed vial then transferring the 1500 Pregnyl reconstitute to that. I'm with CS on the 30-31g insulin syringe. On the upper outer thigh try spreading the skin. Pinching is for the stomach. If you have tough skin you'll need a lower gauge short needle. The upper shoulder is another good spot.


If you can get it I might try a compounded injectable nutrient and metabolic foemula. Check Defy's various formulations for reference.

Diet is most important but you might want to try bulk pure amino powders. I've found Whey and pure bulk aminos have helped me immensely with fat loss, energy, mood, cognition, muscle growth and retention and even libido. In the UK MyProtein is a good source. Make sure you don't overpay, buy on one of the weekly sales and reject anything with an expiry less than one year out.

My current list, which may or may not be appropriate for you ( I'm much older): Impact Whey Isolate, L-Glutamine, Leucine Peptide, ALCAR, ALA, Taurine, AAKG, L-Theanine,

From elsewhere, capsules and tablets: BioTech Cholcalciferol, COQ10, Silymarin, PQQ, Vit K complex, DHA/EPA, zinc/copper, Magnesium Threnate + one other form of Mg.

 

[lookingforhelp]

Some great advice there!

Ive worked outside most my life and never really been doing a lot of indoors work where I would necessarily be exposed to chemicals. I was assaulted 4 years ago, smashed round the head with a bottle, that's when all this started really. The thing is I didn't even do anything, wrong place wrong time. Think bad choices with drinking etc to numb the pain and letheragy and then being exposed to saw palmetto briefly made things worse for me although my body seemed to be slowing down before all this.

I now eat a completely gluten free diet, no processed foods at all apart from the occasional bit of chocolate. I don't drink or smoke and haven't done for two years now. I found out I had the genes for celiac and ulcerative colitis (my father had this)so it was my prerogative to feed my body the best. I've pretty much changed my whole life around hoping that this would fix itself, given my body the building blocks it needs, but I'm still here.

i currently take 4000iu vit d every day,
methylated b12 every other day,
magnesium 250mg before bed every night.

i was taking glutamine powder for a while but wasn't sure if it was doing much. May start again and follow your footsteps.

 

[Re-Ride]

Thanks for giving us context L.F.H. The MRI following the assault was unremarkable?

Supplementation is hit or miss when it comes to treating any medical condition. More miss than hit for endocrine issues. Occasionally there is a food allergy, metabolic or absorption problem that can be addressed. You seem to understand this ( "give building blocks body needs"}. Evidence is stronger for maintenance and prevention. One approach is to research each amino you think you'd like to try thoroughly.

With the CNS and metabolic boosting aminos the effects are fairly evident. Please don't take anything because it appears in a forum thread.

 

[lookingforhelp]

Yes it was unremarkable. I had the MRI initially because I had raised prolactin. Its not a tumor, it seems to fluctuate. Ive read that this is also a symptom of head trauma.

To be honest trying to get help in the UK for anything hormonally is an absolute sham. Trying to get a prescription for needles and syringes but my doctors surgery is having none of it. It really is a battle!

If anyone can link me to somewhere online that supplies needles etc and are trustworthy that would be so helpful.

 

[newguy128]

Yes it was unremarkable. I had the MRI initially because I had raised prolactin. Its not a tumor, it seems to fluctuate. Ive read that this is also a symptom of head trauma.

To be honest trying to get help in the UK for anything hormonally is an absolute sham. Trying to get a prescription for needles and syringes but my doctors surgery is having none of it. It really is a battle!

If anyone can link me to somewhere online that supplies needles etc and are trustworthy that would be so helpful.

R. Healthwarehouse.com......Sure Comfort Insulin Syringes, 1cc/ml, 5/16" length, 31 gauge, about $22-23 for 100 count.