HCG -- How Long To Feel/See Results?

[Shepard Growlski]

Hi everyone,

Had low testosterone about 5 years ago at age 16...REALLY low... I think a count of 4 ng/dl. Doctor prescribed Androgel (which, in hindsight, seems like a stupid decision). Numbers went back to normal, I stopped taking it.

Anyways...this February, I noticed that I wasn't getting as many erections as usual around a girl I really like. Figured that I should probably get the numbers re-checked. Woo-lah!

The numbers:

19 ng/dl
LH: 1.8
FSH: 2.2

Doctor believes I have secondary hypogomadism and prescribed HCG (Pregnyl, to be precise). Wants me to inject 500 units 3x a week.

Question: does anyone have any idea how long this stuff takes to kick in? How long until I see results, etc?

Thanks all!

 

[Prof]

Wow, with 19 ng/dl how you can live? You must be feeling like a zombie.

 

[johndoesmith]

Wow, I have never seen levels that low in all the time I've spent on various low testosterone forums. Would you be able to post a picture of the actual labs? Just out of curiosity!

HCG is absorbed pretty quickly, Dr. saya did a study that's on these boards with a break down of two doses and their respective blood levels over time. It's peaked at about 24-48 hours, but I am not sure that your testosterone levels will rise as quickly as the HCG rises. I honestly can't imagine that your testicles are very capable of producing enough testosterone for you to feel good, but at the same time your androgen receptors may be significantly upregulated causing you to be more sensitive to testosterone. I honestly have no idea, too many variables.

I would also want to know why you are so suppressed in terms of gonadotropins, hell even with secondary you usually see at least 150ng/dl with LH around 1-3. Also why/if you are primary as well.

I am not sure if this is possible, but possibly delayed puberty? I can't imagine that its even close to common to be 21 with 4ng/dl testosterone, the low end of the range for women is higher(not trying to be offensive, or insulting)

 

[CoastWatcher]

Welcome to Excelmale. This started five years ago, when you were 16? And you were put on Androgel? What other labs were run then, and what other labs have you run recently? Your thyroid, TSH/t3/t4/rt3/thyroid antibodies - were they pulled? Did you do any sort of restart or just walk away from therapy when you quit using Androgel?

I am concerned you haven't received proper medical care at any point of this journey.

 

[trt4me]

You need a better dr. ASAP.
You are too young to have numbers that low and not have the root cause investigated.

 

[Shepard Growlski]

Thanks for the replies all.

I know it sounds crazy, but I honestly don't feel like a zombie! I have tons of energy. Could just be a matter of me getting used to this as it's probably been the case for a very long time (maybe forever?). Like I said, the only reason I knew there was a problem was when I was attracted to someone and wasn't feeling it. Energy isn't an issue.

The first doctor from several years ago might have not been the best, but it was also partially my fault. I didn't schedule any follow-up appointments. Various tests were done then (thyroid, MRI, etc) -- all came out fine.

Anyways, I believe that they did investigate the root cause (at least this recent second doctor has). I've had MRIs done and they believe it's a pituitary problem (secondary hypogomadism). They think I'm more than capable of producing testosterone on my own, just need to stimulate the LH. Over the past couple months, I've been to 3 different doctors (2 endos, 1 urologist)...both endos recommended HCG.


My recent labs are attached.

 

[PAUL-E]

a1c at 5.5 is not good I would start making some lifestyle/nutritional changes
your vitamin D 16.8 is low I would consider supplementation
your thyroid TSH of 3.81 is high and I believe warrants further investigation (hypothyroid can cause low testosterone) most doctors only look at results if your out of range GOOD doctors look at where you are within all ranges.

 

[CoastWatcher]

a1c at 5.5 is not good I would start making some lifestyle/nutritional changes
your vitamin D 16.8 is low I would consider supplementation
your thyroid TSH of 3.81 is high and I believe warrants further investigation (hypothyroid can cause low testosterone) most doctors only look at results if your out of range GOOD doctors look at where you are within all ranges.

Excelent advice here. Focusing on these issues now, at the age of 21, will pay off for you as time goes by.

 

[Shepard Growlski]

Excelent advice here. Focusing on these issues now, at the age of 21, will pay off for you as time goes by.

Yes, doctor just prescribed me Vitamin D supplementation.

I have a family history of hypothyroid but mine has been checked and I'm pretty sure I'm good there. Perhaps I should investigate it further.

Doctor wants to get further tests done for my hemoglobin. He believes that might be an issue (not nutritional, but further than that). Should it come out high upon further testing, he might want me to go on medication for that.

 

[PAUL-E]

Yes, doctor just prescribed me Vitamin D supplementation.

I have a family history of hypothyroid but mine has been checked and I'm pretty sure I'm good there. Perhaps I should investigate it further.

Doctor wants to get further tests done for my hemoglobin. He believes that might be an issue (not nutritional, but further than that). Should it come out high upon further testing, he might want me to go on medication for that.

That's good but IMHO if you had a GOOD doctor he or she would already be looking into thyroid more. Do you drink pop eat a lot of sugar white bread pasta carbs?

 

[Vince Carter]

Your TSH of 3.81 means its running in overdrive, the body is low on T3 or T4 and the pitutitary is hitting it hard with that TSH, to make more. It's not good for your health. It's one of those things that most Drs will say it's in range, but it's far from optimal and needs treated.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Has your doctor checked prolactin ? That is the lowest T value I have ever seen. Are you sure you do not have a prolactin secreting pituitary adenoma?
I agree that you should get free T3 and free T4 done also.

 

[Shepard Growlski]

Thanks everyone, very helpful!

I have a feeling that you might be onto something with the hypothyroid. It would make sense since I have a family history of it. Although I've seen plenty already, I'll make sure to see another doctor who specializes in thyroid-related issues before starting the HCG.

Not sure if prolactin was ever checked. Doctor from 4-5 years ago did make me get an MRI, but I'll make sure that it's checked.

 

[Shepard Growlski]

Just got off the phone with one of the endocrinologists. He claims that while my thyroid is on the high side, it's still within range so it's okay. He also said that a hyperthyroid wouldn't be consistent with symptoms of erectile dysfunction/low libido.

Do you think I should schedule an appointment with another endocrinologist? The only problem would be that it'd set me back another 2-3 months to secure an appointment, but I guess at this point it doesn't matter right?

 

[PAUL-E]

Just got off the phone with one of the endocrinologists. He claims that while my thyroid is on the high side, it's still within range so it's okay. He also said that a hyperthyroid wouldn't be consistent with symptoms of erectile dysfunction/low libido.

Do you think I should schedule an appointment with another endocrinologist? The only problem would be that it'd set me back another 2-3 months to secure an appointment, but I guess at this point it doesn't matter right?

Honestly from my experience most (not all) endo's GP's and urologists are a waste of time and money I would look into finding an experienced HRT/TRT doctor.

 

[Vitamin_C]

Beyond the low vitamin D and thyroid issues, there HAS to be something else going on here. TT that low should warrant a deep investigation by a good Endo.

 

[Shepard Growlski]

Beyond the low vitamin D and thyroid issues, there HAS to be something else going on here. TT that low should warrant a deep investigation by a good Endo.

Would you mind explaining? Why is the doctors' "you have secondary hypogomadism -- a pituitary problem where your head isn't sending the proper signals to the testicles" not an adequate explanation? And why is giving me HCG, which will supposedly mimic LH and thus stimulate the pituitary glands, not sufficient treatment?

I definitely believe you, I'm just trying to process this all in my head. Remember: I just came on here to ask how long the HCG would take to kick in, wasn't even thinking that y'all would pick up on other issues.

Thanks again all, sorry for being a bother

 

[Vince Carter]

Endo's have next to know credibility around here, for exactly the reasons you came back with...your Thyroid is basically OK, and that it has nothing to with ED or Libido. You need to run. These folks plain and simple don't know what they're doing.
HCG mono is really not a treatment, not an effective one, and certainly not over time. Having heard it before, they'll megadose you something on the order of 1000iu 3x a week which is will spur massive aromatization to E, making your life, harder.
We've seen every bit of this before...endo's have no credibility here. None at all.

 

[PAUL-E]

My advice would be to 1st look into finding an experienced HRT/TRT doctor and get your thyroid taken care of after that look into TRT I believe the thyroid will help but is probably a peace of the puzzle you might need both but that is something only a GOOD EXPERANCED doctor can tell you. If you post your state maybe someone here can recommend a competent doctor otherwise I would encourage you to take advantage of the resources on this board.
The HCG mimics LH thus stimulating the testical's to produce testosterone.
You mentioned the endo wanting to do 500iu's 3x a week IMHO this is too much and will lead to excessive inner testicular aromatization that an AI will not be as effective against, you would be better served on a low dose of testosterone along with a lower dose HCG, HCG alone is not going to make you feel as good nor will ignoring the thyroid.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Just got off the phone with one of the endocrinologists. He claims that while my thyroid is on the high side, it's still within range so it's okay. He also said that a hyperthyroid wouldn't be consistent with symptoms of erectile dysfunction/low libido.

Do you think I should schedule an appointment with another endocrinologist? The only problem would be that it'd set me back another 2-3 months to secure an appointment, but I guess at this point it doesn't matter right?

Yet again, another doctor tells a patient that "in range" is the same thing as "normal." Your thyroid is running hot...a sluggish thyroid can, most certainly impact your libido...did you raise the prolactin issue? I would urge you to consult a doctor who specializes in androgen replacement. You deserve better.