Has anyone tried Injectable DHEA?

[Vince]

I finally watched https://www.excelmale.com/?s=174-We...e-HCG-DHEA-finasteride-syndrome-and-much-more Dr. Crisler talked about injectable DHEA. I was wondering if anyone who has used injectable DHEA, can share their experiences.

 

[ERO]

I have been using it now for just over 3 weeks and I do not feel any difference what so ever. Perhaps it is too early and after 5-6 weeks I will feel something. I sure hope so...

To be clear, I am using Test Cyp 200mg/ml with 25mg DHEA/ml and I am injecting a small amount daily.

 

[Vince Carter]

so it's compounded in the same vial as your CYP? I'd be interested in that...I currently use a TD Cream (with Pregnenolone, too).

 

[ERO]

Yes, same vial. It is from APS Pharmacy. I have had an easy time raising my DHEA levels to the upper quartile of the normal range with a simple 50mg capsule at dinner in the past but I wanted to try this after the last podcast.

Have to keep my fingers crossed on this...

 

[Dr. John Crisler]

I'll share with you that I am currently injecting about 6mg per day. I feel GREAT.

 

[Vince Carter]

Oh Im def going to ask Dr Saya if I can move to this over the cream.

 

[ERO]

In the 5+ years that I have been on TRT I have never "felt" much of anything from it, so others may well get more out of this than I have or will have after I have been on for a full 6 weeks.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

Mentioned this in a previous thread on the topic, but for guys thinking of doing the injectable T cyp/ DHEA combo, need to be aware you really HAVE to inject every day as the DHEA has no ester attached to it and is in/out of the system quickly (vs the T cyp). I experimented with this with a few willing guys a year or two ago with BIW/TIW injections and didn't work well...HAS to be daily. Thankfully, several (Dr Crisler, ERO, etc) have graciously decided to become guinea pigs with the new attempt at DAILY injections...with interestingly differing results thus far (Crisler great, ERO not so much...will give it some more time and see what labs show...will be interesting if nothing else).

 

[Vince]

Dr. Crisler uses 6mg a day and feels great, ERO uses 25mg a day and feels nothing. Should ERO try less, like 6mg?

Can anyone else share their experiences with injectable DHEA.

 

[Gene Devine]

Other then his position on E2 with TRT which I disagree with, among others; this guy knows his shit!!! Note the 50 mg daily BUT with Slow Release...very important do to the fast half life of the drug. Or the alternative would be 25 mg twice daily of a non SR.

DHEA Supplementation
Dehydroepiandrosterone: DHEA
As presented by Dr. Neal Rouzier, M.D.


DHEA is a hormone secreted primarily by the adrenal glands. It results in a shift of a catabolic state to an anabolic or protein building state.
• It reduces cardiovascular risks by increasing lipolyses (decrease visceral fat).
• It stimulates the immune system, restores sexual vitality, improves moods, decreases cholesterol and body fat.
• It improves memory, increases energy, and has anti-cancer properties by enhancing the immune system.
• It is an endocrine precursor to other hormones, prevents immuno-senescence, loss of sleep, osteoporosis, atherosclerosis.
• DHEA reduces insulin requirement
• Adrenal hormone anabolic vs. catabolic metabolism
• Restores immunity
• Prevents osteoporosis, increases bone density
• Prevents cancer in lab animals
• Prevents diabetes & heart disease
• Decreases visceral fat
• Improves mood & well-being
• Improves energy & memory
• Slows aging process in lab animals
• Prevents lipid peroxidation = antioxidant
• Endocrine precursor to T.P.E.
• 7-keto DHEA is not a precursor to other HRT = avoid
• Neurotransmitter (recently discovered)
• Presently pending FDA approval for Lupus (Prasterone)
Clinically substantiated uses of DHEA include replacement for:
• Low DHEA levels
• Chronic disease
• Adrenal exhaustion or corticosteroid therapy
• SLE
• Improving bone density
• Improving depression & mood disorders
• Enhancing immune response by activating T-cells
• Improving well-being
• Decreasing cardiovascular risk
• Improving erectile dysfunction
• Anyone over 40
• DHEA has never been shown to reverse the aging process
• Nevertheless DHEA is important for preventive medicine
• DHEA inhibits synthesis of thromboxane A2, reduces plasminogen activator inhibitor, and tissue plasminogen activator – all decreasing platelet aggregation and ischemia.


Administration:
Men<200lb: 50mg AM
Men>200lb: 75-100mg AM
Women <50yo: 10-15mg AM
Women >50yo: 25mg AM
IMPORTANT:
DHEA Serum Levels
MEN
• Range 100-600
• Optimal 500-600
WOMEN
• Range 50-300
• Optimal 200-250
Higher levels in women predispose them to side effects &#8211; therefore stay low.
• Monitor monthly until optimal
• Assure correct dose and compliance
• Measure DHEA-S and not DHEA
• Side effects: acne, hirsutism
• Tx: Lower dose or take QOD Spironolactone 100 mg/day
• Contraindicated in sex hormone responsive tumors &#8211; breast, ovarian, uterine, prostate
• Conversion to T.P.E.?
• DHEA raises testosterone levels in women slightly, yet not in men
• DHEA raises estradiol slightly in men
Indications:
• Over age 40 for health protection
• Preventive medicine and well-being
• Symptoms of aging, mood & depression
• Cause the medical literature suggests it if we want to live longer, happier, healthier




DHEA &#8211; S
MEN Blood levels
• Optimal : 500-600 ug/ml
• Side effects rare in men
WOMEN Blood Levels
• Optimal : 200-250 ug/ml
• Dose based on side effects
• Side effects very common in women
DHEA Dose
MEN
• Capsule &#8211; SR micronized
• 50 mg Q am
• >200 lbs &#8211; 75 - 100 mg Q am
WOMEN
• Capsule &#8211; SR micronized
• 10 mg Q am if over 40
• 15 mg Q am if over 50
• 25 mg Q am if over 60
• If under age 40, do not prescribe due to sensitivity causing side effects.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

Dr. Crisler uses 6mg a day and feels great, ERO uses 25mg a day and feels nothing. Should ERO try less, like 6mg?

Can anyone else share their experiences with injectable DHEA.

Actually ERO would only be using 25mg of the DHEA if he was injecting 1ml daily. If memory serves he is getting closer to 4mg daily. It's also tricky because you cannot fine-tune the DHEA separately from the Testosterone...because they're together, when you adjust one you're also forced to adjust the other.

 

[Jasen Bruce]

If DHEA were to be compounded separately it could be done in a higher concentration and could be individually titrated. DHEA in an injectable solution tends to be thicker than testosterone, but 100mg/ml or even 200mg/ml may be possible. With a higher concentration less would need to be injected. It can then be combined with other injections without increasing the volume in the syringe too much.

The downside may be the initial cost as Empower Pharmacy or APS would first have to establish a BUD (beyond use date) for DHEA injectable. New regulations created more hurdles for compounders to produce a new injectable formula not previously established through FDA approved third party testing. But once the BUD has been established, and the ordering volume is there, cost will go down quickly as it is not expensive to continually produce.

 

[Jasen Bruce]

The Cypionate + DHEA combination at APS was created to mimic an old combination product called Sten. Sten was a blend of testosterone's cypionate+propionate+DHEA in a lower concentration (37.5mg+12.5mg+10mg per ml). There were a handful of doctors who used the compounded version (test cypionate 200mg/ml + DHEA 25mg/ml) therefore that specific formula has been well established. At the time, we experimented with 200mg cypionate+50mg DHEA per ML however at the 50mg/ml concentration the DHEA was too thick to pass through even a 23g needle. If a way to thin the solution has not been identified I assume DHEA by itself will max out around 100mg/ml. I am sure Empower will work to find a way to micronize the DHEA further and minimize viscosity, they can do it if its possible.

I tried this blend while employed at the pharmacy and again about 3 years ago. Although I only injected twice per week and saw no change in DHEA levels I did notice an enhanced mood and well-being. It was significant enough to note. I would be interested in trying daily injections

 

[ERO]

Dr. Crisler uses 6mg a day and feels great, ERO uses 25mg a day and feels nothing. Should ERO try less, like 6mg?

Can anyone else share their experiences with injectable DHEA.

I am getting roughly 4mg daily of DHEA. The concentration is 25mg DHEA per 200mg Test Cyp.

 

[roadglide]

On a side note has anyone felt anxious or jittery on a DHEA troche? I also felt jittery after taking cialis troche, but never in a pill form. Just wondering if there is something about a troche that could do this or is it just me? I'd also be interested in daily injections especially if you can use the same syringe with HCG.

 

[ERO]

FWIW - Everyone is different but myself and at least some other guys here have never had any issues with DHEA capsules working well to raise DHEA to the upper quartile of the normal range. That and capsules are very inexpensive and arguably easier to use than creams or troches. Might be worth a try if you have not already tried that delivery method.

 

[Vince]

I am supplementing with DHEA, orally. I have never felt any benefit from taking DHEA. When I suffered from low testosterone, DHEA raised my estrogen and make my testosterone go even lower. I started with a very low dose of DHEA and kept raising the amount of dhea. As I increase amount of dhea, my estrogen kept increasing and my T kept going lower.

 

[Vince Carter]

I am supplementing with DHEA, orally. I have never felt any benefit from taking DHEA. When I suffered from low testosterone, DHEA raised my estrogen and make my testosterone go even lower. I started with a very low dose of DHEA and kept raising the amount of dhea. As I increase amount of dhea, my estrogen kept increasing and my T kept going lower.

If you're orally ingesting a tablet, something not-micronized to pass through the liver, its a notorious E converter (in the liver). Micronized, subligual, TD...all work better in that way.

 

[Vince]

If you're orally ingesting a tablet, something not-micronized to pass through the liver, its a notorious E converter (in the liver). Micronized, subligual, TD...all work better in that way.

I agree. I need to try a subligual dhea and see I feel any benefit from it or any rise in estrogen.

 

[ERO]

Everybody is different on that. I never get any raise in E2 from even large oral doses of DHEA.