Gel Testing and Contact

[galaxy]

Hi All - I've searched the forum and have seen conflicting reports as to the appropriate time to do lab tests when on gels/creams.

I've currently my understanding that tests should be done two hours after application of the gel/cream (in order to gauge how much is being absorbed) taking care not to apply any on the location where blood may be drawn from.

Separately, I had a question regarding skin to skin contact. Say I apply the gel/cream in the AM (7-9) would I need to be concerned with any skin to skin contact in the evening ranging from incidental to full sex?

 

[Vince Carter]

That is the only way to approach the testing, and no I wouldn't worry about incidental contact with the site ~12hrs later

 

[galaxy]

Thanks. What about sex ~12 hours later?

 

[Vince Carter]

I think there's no concern about any contact 12 hours later

 

[blackebob]

Uhm, what is incidental sex? Like seperate rooms?

 

[galaxy]

Hahaha that would be something. Nah I wrote "ranging from incidental contact to full sex"

 

[galaxy]

I just wanted to let everyone know that after some more Googling I found this article https://academic.oup.com/humrep/article/24/2/425/808493

It details a case of a woman absorbing excess testosterone up to 8 hours later, and goes through numerous studies that indicate that one can even transfer the testosterone via skin to skin contact up to 12 hours later. If this is truly the case, this may be a limiting factor in the usefulness of gels for myself.

 

[FeelingLost]

I just wanted to let everyone know that after some more Googling I found this article https://academic.oup.com/humrep/article/24/2/425/808493

It details a case of a woman absorbing excess testosterone up to 8 hours later, and goes through numerous studies that indicate that one can even transfer the testosterone via skin to skin contact up to 12 hours later. If this is truly the case, this may be a limiting factor in the usefulness of gels for myself.

Everybody has their opinion on this including me and I call BS.
Galaxy have you ever heard of Scream Cream. It's a prescription that is rubbed into the lady parts before/during sex it has 1% T in it.

 

[blackebob]

Everybody has their opinion on this including me and I call BS.
Galaxy have you ever heard of Scream Cream. It's a prescription that is rubbed into the lady parts before/during sex it has 1% T in it.

I did gels and creams for almost three years, and I put it on every morning. We have never had a problem with it. Sex most afternoons.

I dont know how it could stay effective for that long. There would be no need for daily application.

 

[txmx]

Regarding the timing of blood testing in relation to testosterone cream:
The Defy lab orders I got yesterday contain this comment:
Medicationslease be sure to have your labs drawn BEFORE your next testosteroneinjection or AFTER your hormone cream application that day (unless otherwiseinstructed by the medical staff.)
Since this comment is non-specific, I called Defy to clarify. I was told that Dr. Saya says blood testing can occur after one hour of absorption for the cream. I then asked if 2 1/2 to 3 hours would be ok (since that is where I was at time-wise at that point) and was told yes, although I am not sure of the expertise of the person who said this. (Maybe Dr. Saya can clarify for us.)
(Additional note: I called Empower and asked this same question. I was put on hold for 20 minutes waiting to talk with a pharmacist. They never got to me. Then I was told the pharmacist would call me back. That was 24 hours ago and I have yet to be called by them

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

Applying the cream/gel the morning of labs is preferred (gives clues to rate of absorption). However, the key is for the provider to take into context the timing of the lab draw in relation to the timing of application, regardless of the specifics of said timing.

 

[galaxy]

Dr. Saya - Thanks for adding your input regarding the timing of labs Did you have any thoughts regarding skin to skin contact and transference 6-12 hours later per the article and studies I had posted. It seems that most on here aren't too concerned about transference but the article explicitly references a woman who had Hyperandrogenism after regular contact with her husband 6 hours after application

 

[blackebob]

Dr. Saya - Thanks for adding your input regarding the timing of labs Did you have any thoughts regarding skin to skin contact and transference 6-12 hours later per the article and studies I had posted. It seems that most on here aren't too concerned about transference but the article explicitly references a woman who had Hyperandrogenism after regular contact with her husband 6 hours after application

Well there's a big difference between 6 hours and 12 hours. I didn't read the article, but if your basing it off of 6 hours after application at home when I haven't done anything all day, then yeah I'd say there's a good chance. However applying it at 6 in the morning covering with a t-shirt then working 8 and 1/2 to 9 hours plus travel time you're probably looking at 10 to 11 hours before you get back home after the shirts been rubbing on it all day. I'm not worried about that

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

Dr. Saya - Thanks for adding your input regarding the timing of labs Did you have any thoughts regarding skin to skin contact and transference 6-12 hours later per the article and studies I had posted. It seems that most on here aren't too concerned about transference but the article explicitly references a woman who had Hyperandrogenism after regular contact with her husband 6 hours after application

It’s a risk and I have seen elevated levels in some spouses. However, as blackebob notes, there may be some mitigating factors. The risk, however small, is unavoidable except of course by changing to injectable.

 

[galaxy]

Ok thanks Dr. Saya. To be clear while the article makes a case study reference to a woman after 6 hours of contact they also reference several studies that illustrated transference occurring at 12 hours. See below for excerpts:

" In one study (UMD-98-037), males applied 100 mg of AndroGel to the upper arms, shoulders and abdomen. They were asked to have 15 min of intensive abdomen-to-abdomen skin contact with their spouses per day for a period of 7 days. The time between application of the gel and skin contact varied from 2 to 12 h between different groups. One group of men was asked to wear a shirt covering the exposed areas during abdominal contact. The mean 24 h plasma testosterone level in the exposed women doubled after 1 day and even quadrupled after 1 week of skin contact. Mean testosterone levels in women were lower when the interval between application and skin contact was longer; however, even 12 h after application, considerable transfer of testosterone appeared to take place, indicating that transfer and uptake of transferred testosterone may take place long after application of the gel. Wearing a shirt prevented a detectable increase in testosterone levels in women. Taking a shower 1 h after application of the gel also prevented significant transfer (UMD-99-023) without significantly affecting the mean 24 h testosterone level in treated males. This shows that most applied testosterone is absorbed through the skin shortly after application. A similar study (AUX-TG-206) was conducted using Testim 100 mg applied to the abdomen with 15 min intensive skin contact 1–12 h after application. The mean 24 h testosterone level in the female partners increased up to 12 times from the baseline level. Even in the group who had skin contact 12 h after application, the mean 24 h testosterone levels in women were 8-fold over the baseline level. Wearing a shirt did not completely prevent transfer of testosterone. Applying Testim to the shoulders (AUX-TG-209) appeared to lower transfer potential significantly. Showering 1–6 h after application of the gel lowered the 24 h mean testosterone levels in treated men by 25–30% (AUX-TG-207).From these studies, it can be concluded that both gels have the potential to raise testosterone levels in women after skin contact with treated men even hours after application. Wearing a shirt covering the application sites or taking a shower after application appears to minimize the risk of testosterone transfer."

 

[blackebob]

Ok thanks Dr. Saya. To be clear while the article makes a case study reference to a woman after 6 hours of contact they also reference several studies that illustrated transference occurring at 12 hours. See below for excerpts:

"One group of men was asked to wear a shirt covering the exposed areas during abdominal contact.

And the data still showed that somehow it was still elevated. So if it could work its way through the fabric of a T shirt 12 hours after application, while rubbing bellies for twelve minutes would not the non shirt wearers be like a hell of a lot higher? So, dont put it on your stomach, put it on your shoulders and upper back. Go to work, work out, blah blah... time your sex for later in the day, and if your worried take a shower. i never had a problem with that protocol.

Although, now that I think of it, she started stealing my razor....

 

[galaxy]

Haha - Ya I may be overthinking it, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

 

[Davet]

Been on T-gel now close to 3 years.....dose 3 times a day...on waking, middle of the day and evening...maintaining levels in the upper area...rotating sites and using moisturizer to enhance absorption.....no problems with my lady shes happy and smiley, never been a problem with a little care......as feeling lost saize a little bit of T works wonders for a hot lady...I know ladies who have T in their therapy to keep them hot lol

 

[keithc2485]

Can I USE my AndroGEL in the PM somenights and is 5 hrs long enough>??

Question about time for androgel 1% to set in..... is 5 hours enough time to leave on? then moisturize 1 hour after applying.. then shower at 5 hours? or should it be left on longer if possible ?

with summer coming, its going to be hard during the day to have it on and go to the beach , pool ect......

SECOND QUESTION: Will if effect me that much IF on occasional days it is applied AT BEDTIME to avoid contact or going in water?
I know ur T levels are up the most in the AM, but if 1 or 2 days out of the week it is used at night will that be bad?? if not at bed time, at least after my day is over like 5 or 6 pm:?

any response would be great! thank you.

I am on 75mgs a day of 1% 6 pumps a day...

 

[galaxy]

Just playing devils advocate here as I want to be conscientious about messing with my partners hormone levels. For those that say they're using tropicals and haven't noticed any affects in their partners how are you gauging this? Unless I'm missing something outside of pulling labs there's no way of really knowing correct? True in the case of a sensitive woman or large doses of transfer they may exhibit some reaction but if small doses were transferred intermittently over the course of years they may not show up as visible symptoms but may exert some level of influence on her biology.