Five months in... hit my first bump in the road.

[James Cole]

Hello Guys, here are my test results on February 16th 2023, these were taken at 7:00AM, completely fasted and farthest from my initial bi-weekly dose, so actual T numbers may peak higher.

I've been having pretty bad side effects been experimenting with 200mg but recently lowered to 150mg, subq ethanate:


-Dizziness when standing up sometimes with pressure in ears and neck very frequent cases of migraine with aura.
-Mental fog and having vision if I'm like in a movie.
-Lethargic.
-Can't remember names or places easily.
-Low libido but NO ED.

I've had these symptoms before TRT but not nearly as intense, when I first started TRT all these symptoms went away immediately, I think I might have overshot since my TT and FT is way too high as well as my hematocrit which is border line high.

Comments very appreciated, thanks!
JC

 

[Simbarn]

Why did you push your dose up so high? You are at supraphysiologic levels, this creates all types of issues as time goes by.
The initial effects of TRT are often not the ones that stay with you. They are the sudden effects of soaring T levels and the artificial stimulation that causes. This can have a "band-aid" effect for a number of months in some men whereby they feel great, then it all stops. There are complex reasons why this may occur in the cells of our body.
More is often not better when it comes to such a potent ligand such as testosterone.

Your natural T looks quite high in 2020, was that a lab error? Why did you start T replacement? How many tests did you do for testosterone before TRT, so as to determine that you actually had low T?

 

[James Cole]

Why did you push your dose up so high? You are at supraphysiologic levels, this creates all types of issues as time goes by.
The initial effects of TRT are often not the ones that stay with you. They are the sudden effects of soaring T levels and the artificial stimulation that causes. This can have a "band-aid" effect for a number of months in some men whereby they feel great, then it all stops. There are complex reasons why this may occur in the cells of our body.
More is often not better when it comes to such a potent ligand such as testosterone.

Your natural T looks quite high in 2020, was that a lab error? Why did you start T replacement? How many tests did you do for testosterone before TRT, so as to determine that you actually had low T?

I jacked my dosage because as you can see the in the historic results, my FT was still low...

As for my T in 2020 it was 100% natural, I was aiming at that figure since my body apparently handled it well.

 

[RickB]

By "biweekly" do you actually mean semiweekly i.e. twice a week? And I'm assuming you're on an AI.

 

[James Cole]

Sorry English not my primary language, yes twice a week as in Mondays and Thursdays...

No AI... only Ethanate T.

 

[sammmy]

1. You clearly have to lower your TRT dose to less than 100 mg/week. If your measurements are at trough, your T is flying high like a kite. Clearly doesn't make you "more of a man" as bro-science fantasizes. So don't harm yourself.

2. Your symptoms even before TRT show something is going on with your brain. You should go to a Neurologist - infectious disease specialist to test you for neurotropic viruses (IgM for all 8 herpes viruses) and other possible brain infections.

3. Your results from 09/08/22 create the impression that you were already on some kind of anabolic compound: your total T suppressed, hematocrit and hemoglobin increased, blood glucose very low. If you did that just to create the impression that you need TRT, it is best to stop TRT and return to your natural levels in 2020.

 

[RickB]

Sorry English not my primary language, yes twice a week as in Mondays and Thursdays...

Nothing to apologize for, my friend. Probably 50% of native English-speakers get bi and semi mixed up.

Wow, that free T is really high for 100mg twice a week. And even though you're total T is high, the free is very high in reference to that too. I don't think I've ever seen free T that high unless the total T was like 2000.

 

[James Cole]

Nothing to apologize for, my friend. Probably 50% of native English-speakers get bi and semi mixed up.

Wow, that free T is really high for 100mg twice a week. And even though you're total T is high, the free is very high in reference to that too. I don't think I've ever seen free T that high unless the total T was like 2000.

I am taking nettle root extract some days, not sure if that had an effect, I did 200 weekly a few weeks ago then came down to 150 weekly and symptoms reduced I plan to be off one week and return to 100 weekly.

 

[James Cole]

1. You clearly have to lower your TRT dose to less than 100 mg/week. If your measurements are at trough, your T is flying high like a kite. Clearly doesn't make you "more of a man" as bro-science fantasizes. So don't harm yourself.

2. Your symptoms even before TRT show something is going on with your brain. You should go to a Neurologist - infectious disease specialist to test you for neurotropic viruses (IgM for all 8 herpes viruses) and other possible brain infections.

3. Your results from 09/08/22 create the impression that you were already on some kind of anabolic compound: your total T suppressed, hematocrit and hemoglobin increased, blood glucose very low. If you did that just to create the impression that you need TRT, it is best to stop TRT and return to your natural levels in 2020.

1. Looking to close at 100mg a week, 200 and 150 was way too much and the results lagged, I should have been more patient.

2. Symptoms before TRT were very mild, did had migraines about 1-2 times a year... neuros don't know what causes it...

3. Yes it baffles me as well, could have been a bad result, as for glucose I do suffer from a bit of hypoglycemia, which happens to trigger my migraines if my glucose gets very low.

 

[sammmy]

Do you take diabetic drugs that you get hypoglycemia?

How was your memory function before TRT and were you getting dizzy when standing up (orthostatic hypotension)?

 

[Simbarn]

I jacked my dosage because as you can see the in the historic results, my FT was still low...

As for my T in 2020 it was 100% natural, I was aiming at that figure since my body apparently handled it well.

Ok, so if you had such a good level in 2020, what happened after that? Why do you think your levels dropped and what made you think you needed to undergo TRT?
Did you try to improve your natural levels first?
I repeat my question: how many morning tests did you do to evaluate your natural hormones?

 

[James Cole]

Ok, so if you had such a good level in 2020, what happened after that? Why do you think your levels dropped and what made you think you needed to undergo TRT?
Did you try to improve your natural levels first?
I repeat my question: how many morning tests did you do to evaluate your natural hormones?

I am a 40 year old male btw.

I did my test in 2020 as routine test only of many other levels, didn't know about TRT then.

I am not sure why my levels dropped only thing that comes to mind is that I did a vasectomy later that year.

I had been battling in 2021 and 2022 with decreased weight, muscle loss, lethargy, mental fog and social withdrawal but never had low libido or ED, I already did was doing all the things to "prop up" the T, like sports, weights and healthy eating.

Then TRT popped up and at the beginning it took care of all this issues right away, I started gaining weight, mental fog eliminated and could carry on with my day perfectly. I wasn't ecstatic I only felt good and without any "lag" or "tiredness" but nothing out of this world, my FT didn't climb thats why I decided to up the dose and overshot.

Latest test results show "withing range levels" except T, Hematocrit and FSH but this one is supposed to be low on TRT and I understand it.

Thinking on lowering the dose to 100mg weekly.

 

[Belekas]

I second all the comments above and agree fully. Everyone is different though but regarding the low FT it still doesn't mean you will feel better by increasing it. Before starting treatment myself I had like 400-500TT and calculated FT of 0.225 in the range of (0.19-0.6 by NHS) so barely in range, right. Wasn't feeling too bad, was sleeping good, libido, erections on point etc. Now after 4 months running 100mg/week my cFT is 0.6 (same range), tested at through. So high or even above range by those same NHS guidelines. And what? I ain't feeling better then before. Perhaps even worse in some aspects. Yes the athletic/cosmetic benefits I can see a bit, as I've been training for close to 20 years, the recovery still very similar as before, bones still aching from time to time. Not much has improved if any at all. So just have in mind, like the guys said above, that less is more, especially in TRT game if you are looking for overall wellness and least side effects possible.

 

[Simbarn]

I am a 40 year old male btw.

I did my test in 2020 as routine test only of many other levels, didn't know about TRT then.

I am not sure why my levels dropped only thing that comes to mind is that I did a vasectomy later that year.

I had been battling in 2021 and 2022 with decreased weight, muscle loss, lethargy, mental fog and social withdrawal but never had low libido or ED, I already did was doing all the things to "prop up" the T, like sports, weights and healthy eating.

Then TRT popped up and at the beginning it took care of all this issues right away, I started gaining weight, mental fog eliminated and could carry on with my day perfectly. I wasn't ecstatic I only felt good and without any "lag" or "tiredness" but nothing out of this world, my FT didn't climb thats why I decided to up the dose and overshot.

Latest test results show "withing range levels" except T, Hematocrit and FSH but this one is supposed to be low on TRT and I understand it.

Thinking on lowering the dose to 100mg weekly.

From what I can understand so far you had only done 2 tests for testosterone before you undertook TRT?
I have asked twice how many tests you did beforehand but you do not seem to want to answer that question.
The first test result for example could have been a lab error giving such a high number. I would have been highly suspicious of that especially given its out of the reference ranges.
The second test result could have been closer to your real level. I have had lab errors before with testosterone tests in the past.

Given you had no low libido and ED issues before treatment, I would also question that low T was your problem.

 

[James Cole]

Hey Simbarn,

Sorry I did not catch your question,

Ive only done two test prior that are posted... Yes I am thinking the first one might be an error.

My symptoms that made me go the TRT route were:
-Mental Fog
-Tiredness
-Loss of muscle (even while doing weights)
-Weight loss
-Loss of general drive

All these got corrected and improved with TRT...

As for the bad symptoms that I am having am thinking its because my hematocrit is borderline high plus Ive always had low blood pressure... I am taking it easy lowering the dose of TRT and waiting six weeks to see if my conditions improved.

Currently drinking water with Himalayan Salt has helped A LOT the dizziness while standing up, we have very advanced water filtrations systems at home so water comes out without minerals which is supposedly "BAD".

 

[Systemlord]

As for the bad symptoms that I am having am thinking its because my hematocrit is borderline high

For years I always thought high hematocrit was causing my issues, then I started blaming estrogen.

It turned out to be neither. It was multiple mineral deficiencies, about half were from poor diet. TRT can cause you to burn through stuff faster (iron) than if you were natural.

 

[andrewBwinter]

How was your memory function before TRT and were you getting dizzy when standing up (orthostatic hypotension)?

This. Before TRT I would drive to the office (still happens now) and when I got out of the car, I would get a throbbing sensation in my head, pulsing. I was able to manage it with compression socks, but it comes and goes when I stand. Strangest thing.

EDIT: My trough today after 72 hours (8:45 a.m.) was 847 on 120 /week (E3.5D) I have a call next week with the Dr. and I will hear about my 52.7 HCT and my 188 HGB. I'm donating blood on Saturday (cancelled on the 4th because I wanted a true picture of where I was without a donation). In addition to hCG, I am going to advise that I drop to 100mg / wk. 847 at trough could mean my peak total at 24 hours would be somewhere close to 1000 I would think.

The point of all this, @James Cole you gotta get dialed in. I'm over a year and less will definitely be more and I'm still experimenting.

 

[Simbarn]

Hey Simbarn,

Sorry I did not catch your question,

Ive only done two test prior that are posted... Yes I am thinking the first one might be an error.

My symptoms that made me go the TRT route were:
-Mental Fog
-Tiredness
-Loss of muscle (even while doing weights)
-Weight loss
-Loss of general drive

All these got corrected and improved with TRT...

As for the bad symptoms that I am having am thinking its because my hematocrit is borderline high plus Ive always had low blood pressure... I am taking it easy lowering the dose of TRT and waiting six weeks to see if my conditions improved.

Currently drinking water with Himalayan Salt has helped A LOT the dizziness while standing up, we have very advanced water filtrations systems at home so water comes out without minerals which is supposedly "BAD".

It may have been premature initiating testosterone replacement.
I do not think a good physician would put a patient onto testosterone replacement after just two tests, especially given that the first was very suspicious. The second test you had being a retest in my opinion, the result being quite a normal testosterone level.
Another two tests at least, should have been performed to get a good picture of your natural testosterone levels and gonadotropins. Plus a number of other tests to determine if you had other issues which could be responsible for your symptoms. Are you self treating in part?
As I mentioned, the fact you had no libido or sexual difficulties should have made it even more prudent that further investigation was warranted before TRT was considered.

As I also mentioned, high levels of testosterone can appear to fix issues caused by other disease states in the body, for a time, until other issues develop. They have appeared to develop in your case as you describe, in your first post.

it should not be difficult at this stage to cease T replacement and let your body regain natural hormone production. A short run of hCG will bring your testes back from an semi atrophied state relatively quickly, this may hasten recovery, but may not be necessary given the short time you have been on TRT.

 

[James Cole]

This. Before TRT I would drive to the office (still happens now) and when I got out of the car, I would get a throbbing sensation in my head, pulsing. I was able to manage it with compression socks, but it comes and goes when I stand. Strangest thing.

EDIT: My trough today after 72 hours (8:45 a.m.) was 847 on 120 /week (E3.5D) I have a call next week with the Dr. and I will hear about my 52.7 HCT and my 188 HGB. I'm donating blood on Saturday (cancelled on the 4th because I wanted a true picture of where I was without a donation). In addition to hCG, I am going to advise that I drop to 100mg / wk. 847 at trough could mean my peak total at 24 hours would be somewhere close to 1000 I would think.

The point of all this, @James Cole you gotta get dialed in. I'm over a year and less will definitely be more and I'm still experimenting.

Glad to hear these syptoms appear to be inline with "overdose"... keep us posted on how it works out.

As an update I am feeling better and have skipped some days and lowered the dose, my libido increased dramatically after this but it does take time to stabilize... Around six weeks.