I have had a year of dose adjustments of testosterone cypionate, with and without Anastrozole and even gave HCG a trial; all without any improvements in libido and the other erectile dysfunctions. I recently found a men's clinic, run by a D.O. who only specializes in men's health. He gave me the option to either increase testosterone to about 1250 as long as it correlates with an Estradiol level of 1:30. Alternatively, he has seen success putting guys on Clomiphene (50mg daily) with Anastrozole (0.5mg twice a week) in an effort to "wake up the testes". I started this about three weeks ago. About two weeks after stopping TRT I have been feeling utterly dead from a sexual perspective (i.e. zero libido and no reaction to visual stimuli). My concentration, energy and sleep weirdly enough is fine, but I have also started keto two months ago, so there is that. Question: What experiences have you all had after d/c TRT and how long could this process last of feeling sexually completely apathetic?
Systemlord
Member
Your clomid protocol is aggressive and suggests your doctor is a little behind, a clomid protocol of 12.5-25mg EOD is the norm these days. If you quit TRT it's more likely because of the doctors inability to select one that's good for you, aiming for very high levels isn't always best.
What was the longest you ever spend on the same Test dosage?
What was the longest you ever spend on the same Test dosage?
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I had taken 0.26ml twice a week, 0.37ml twice a week, and 0.5ml twice a week, each lasting about three months. I had a brief spike lasting about three days when, all of the sudden I got horny again, but then it went away. That was on 0.5ml. After the brief spike, I stupidly argued that perhaps my T dose was too high and I shifted down. My new doc stated that he has guys usually respond daily good to a 1:30 ratio between T and E2 seems, adding that each guy is a little different. So, I thought I go the Clomid route if that means I don't have to inject myself for the rest of my life. He said there is a 50/50 chance that Clomid and Anastrozole will wake up my testes, but that he did not know for sure because somehow a guy's response to Clomid can be complicated once a he has been doing TRT for a while...
Systemlord
Member
Your initial response to clomid is typical, good in the beginning which is short lived. The question is after stopping clomid, will your natural production be enough. More often than not, restarts fail to keep in in the optimal ranges.
Do you have any labs that you can share?
Also, in terms of erectile function, some guys find that a combination of TRT + a PDE5 is required to address to see improvement. I'm one of those guys - erectile function is improved with TRT alone or with a PDE5 alone, but still far from ideal. With properly managed TRT AND a PDE5, erectile function is noticeably improved.
Also, in terms of erectile function, some guys find that a combination of TRT + a PDE5 is required to address to see improvement. I'm one of those guys - erectile function is improved with TRT alone or with a PDE5 alone, but still far from ideal. With properly managed TRT AND a PDE5, erectile function is noticeably improved.
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
Not to start a debate. But how can you say that. My doctor has tried every conceivable thing in trt/hrt realm and I never feel much of anything from it. And been quite a few guys on the forums over the years with same experience.
Systemlord; the initial response to increased libido came after I increased T to 0.5 twice a week, did that for about 2-3 months and then added HCG. After the brief burst went away, I finished the month of HCG, but decreased T to 0.7ml twice a week. Any idea how long it might take for Clomid to be in the system before HPTA results in testes to make natural testosterone again?
When I did 0.5ml twice a week, my throve was as follows in November.
T=1152
FreeT=31.55
SHBG=27,54
E2 (LC/MS)=35.3
E2 (standard)=45.72
In January, I had my labs run again after having decreased my dose to 0.37 twice a week and the values were as follows (at the throve):
T=568
FreeT=15.07
SHBG=20.24
E2 (LC/MS)=48.2
E2 (Standard)=49.68
CoastWatcher
Moderator
Where did your testosterone sit when you initiated TRT?
I'm guessing you felt better on the 0.5ml protocol? Strange results after lowering your dose - would not have expected SHBG to down and E2 to go up. Regardless, I'm curious how you might feel with something right in the middle of those two labs.
Systemlord
Member
It shouldn't take long for clomid to increase natural production again, typical clomid protocols are 3-6 months and then stop and see where your natural levels go.
Systemlord, is that anecdotal evidence or do you know of any studies that discuss this?
So I agree with Systemlord. Your doctor is just a little behind on how to properly dose Clomid. 50mg/ day is an old school dose. Most doctors, that know what they’re doing, dose it at 12.5mg/ day, or 12.5mg EOD, to start. The most I would ever use of clomid per day would be 25mg. I personally tried 50mg/ day, due to having a doctor that wasn’t the best, it was the worst I have ever felt in my life. Zero libido, penis stopped working, extremely depressed, had suicidal thoughts often, low energy, just overall felt horrible. And I am not prone to depression. I was never depressed before that really, and haven’t been depressed since. The thoughts I had on clomid were very scary. Never knew hormone fluctuations could cause such drastically different thinking. Was definitely a big learning experience for sure. Here were my labs on 50mg of clomid per day, and 0.25mg of anastrozole twice per week. So 0.5mg of anastrozole total per week. My SHBG usually runs around the high 40’s/ low 50’s for the record.
Total T - 1535 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free T - 98.5 (46.0-224.0)
Bio T - 198.4 (110.0-575.0 ng/dL)
SHBG - 91 (10-50)
E2 Sensitive - 51
DHT - 78 (16-79)
Prolactin - 3.9 (2.0-18.0)
Those were my labs after 2 months on clomid. So it doesn’t take too long for it to raise endogenous testosterone levels. My levels probably were that high after 1-3 weeks of 50mg/ day. But just don’t expect your levels to stay elevated once you stop clomid. That’s not how it works. There’s no such thing as a “restart”. Your levels will always go back to baseline after discontinuing clomid. I had my levels tested 2 months after stopping clomid, and my levels were exactly where they were at baseline. No more, no less. And I’m not just going by my experience, this is the experience you’ll see from anyone that does clomid. Levels will always go back to baseline. So don’t expect clomid to “jumpstart” your testicles or anything. Sorry to be a cloud of negativity lol, but it’s just how it works. “Restarts” are an old wives tale.
Total T - 1535 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free T - 98.5 (46.0-224.0)
Bio T - 198.4 (110.0-575.0 ng/dL)
SHBG - 91 (10-50)
E2 Sensitive - 51
DHT - 78 (16-79)
Prolactin - 3.9 (2.0-18.0)
Those were my labs after 2 months on clomid. So it doesn’t take too long for it to raise endogenous testosterone levels. My levels probably were that high after 1-3 weeks of 50mg/ day. But just don’t expect your levels to stay elevated once you stop clomid. That’s not how it works. There’s no such thing as a “restart”. Your levels will always go back to baseline after discontinuing clomid. I had my levels tested 2 months after stopping clomid, and my levels were exactly where they were at baseline. No more, no less. And I’m not just going by my experience, this is the experience you’ll see from anyone that does clomid. Levels will always go back to baseline. So don’t expect clomid to “jumpstart” your testicles or anything. Sorry to be a cloud of negativity lol, but it’s just how it works. “Restarts” are an old wives tale.
Systemlord
Member
Restarts are fairy tales, false hope for those unwilling to accept you'll never have the levels you used to have when younger, unless you know of a way to reverse the aging process.
Unfortunately true. The only time testosterone levels will stay in a healthy range after discontinuing clomid, is if your baseline levels were in a healthy range. So for example, if a guy with an 800 testosterone level does steroids, and then stops using the steroids, his levels might dip down. But his baseline levels were at 800 before he messed with them. So he could go on clomid, it will raise his levels a bit, and then when he stops, his levels should return to baseline, which should be around 800. But if your baseline levels are low, and you use clomid, and it raises your levels, your testosterone level will go right back to where it was at baseline.
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
I had the same exact experience as you with clomid at 50mg. It was terrible. Never had a suicidal thought in my life till I tried 50mg of clomid. And at lower doses it raised my t very well but also my shbg and my free t stayed low normal. The restart did not work for me either
Ya scary stuff when misproperly dosed. Really taught me a lot about how strongly hormones can control your thoughts, actions, how you treat people, how you view life, etc. I’m very thankful I went through it, because I would of never understood how much of our thought process is controlled by hormones, if I never had that experience. It allows me now to empathize with people to a much stronger degree.
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
Absolutly. Even too high of a testosterone dose changed my emotions for the worse And on that dose my labs still looked decent. We are all so different.
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