Enclomiphine timing

[Duece12345]

Greeting Gents,

I am in the process of coming off TRT after 2 years. I took 500iu HCG for a month and for a week after last injection. I started 25mg enclomiphine every night 10 days after last injection. 3 days after starting enclomiphine, I feel AWFUL. I feel like I haven’t slept even though i get 7-8hrs of sleep a night. Zero energy. My bowels are all messed up. I know coming off test would be rough, but this is brutal. Any experiences with enclomiphine and what time of day to take it?

 

[Cataceous]

It might be argued that morning dosing is preferred. Enclomiphene is absorbed pretty rapidly and has a half-life of less than half a day. Morning dosing should correspond a little better to the natural diurnal rhythm that sees serum testosterone rise in the early morning. Personally I've done well with morning dosing while on TRT, though I have not taken more than 12.5 mg daily. Without knowing your current hormone levels it's just a guess as to whether you're having problems from hormonal imbalances or from side effects of enclomiphene. I haven't seen these particular problems linked to enclomiphene, but various men report poor subjective results with this drug in spite of good lab numbers.

 

[Duece12345]

Thanks for the reply. Doc told me that I should take it at night, but I am not sure that is the right call. I think it is interfering with my sleep pretty bad. I am still getting morning wood and my libido is fine, so I imagine my test levels are ok. I am also concerned 25md ED may be a little much. Unfortunately, the only dose I have is 25mg pills.

 

[Vince]

Thanks for the reply. Doc told me that I should take it at night, but I am not sure that is the right call. I think it is interfering with my sleep pretty bad. I am still getting morning wood and my libido is fine, so I imagine my test levels are ok. I am also concerned 25md ED may be a little much. Unfortunately, the only dose I have is 25mg pills.

Can you cut the pills in half?
There is also evidence of drug accumulation in the tissues, as serum levels did not return to baseline within 24 hours of dosing.

 

[Duece12345]

Can you cut the pills in half?
There is also evidence of drug accumulation in the tissues, as serum levels did not return to baseline within 24 hours of dosing.

It looks like they are in capsule form, so I don’t think so. They came from a compounding pharmacy.

 

[Cataceous]

It looks like they are in capsule form, so I don’t think so. They came from a compounding pharmacy.

Certain cheapskates have been known to buy the biggest capsules possible in order to cut the contents with corn starch so that smaller doses are easily measured by volume. There are small measuring spoon sets (1/64 tsp to 1/4 tsp) that let one keep the volumes small.

As for drug accumulation, if it follows first-order pharmacokinetics then it's minimal. A half-life of 12 hours leads to a total accumulation of 1/3 the usual dose. If the half-life is more like eight hours then the accumulation is only 1/7 of the usual dose.

 

[CKO]

Insomnia appears to be a common side effect of enclomiphene. I certainly dealt with it while I was taking it, as well as skin sensitivity and a little bit of anxiety. I was most successful with 12.5 mg every other day. Anything more than that built up in my system and caused pretty severe insomnia. I also recommend taking it in the morning for this reason.

 

[bixt]

Its highly possible the release of testosterone following the administration of enclomiphene does not follow the serum half life of the dose. I suspect the duration of action of enclomiphene is far longer than serum half life.

 

[Cataceous]

Its highly possible the release of testosterone following the administration of enclomiphene does not follow the serum half life of the dose. I suspect the duration of action of enclomiphene is far longer than serum half life.

While there may also be a longer mode of action, the HPTA can respond relatively quickly to the presence or absence of testosterone and estradiol, for example in this study with the drop in endogenous testosterone after testosterone propionate is injected. Therefore I think it's plausible that testosterone production has some degree of direct response to enclomiphene levels, as long as there's not saturation.

Insomnia appears to be a common side effect of enclomiphene. ...

It's uncommon. Even with clomiphene at higher doses the rate of insomnia is given as less than 1%, probably comparable to controls [R].

 

[CKO]

Right, I had to look this up. It's 1% or less in female patients on clomid. I'm sure it carries a similar profile in men on enclomiphene. Anecdotally speaking, there are three to four of us on this form reporting insomnia with enclomiphene. It occurred to me both times I used it. I did not have this reaction with clomid, which is interesting. Not sure if that helps.

 

[Cataceous]

Somehow the estrogenic action of zuclomiphene is overriding the possible negative effect of enclomiphene on your sleep? Seems unusual, but stranger things have happened. My anecdote is that I have no problems with enclomiphene in spite of being highly prone to sleep disturbances. I can't inject testosterone in the evening without having trouble sleeping. If I eat three grams of chocolate early in the morning then sleep is difficult that night, etc.

 

[Duece12345]

Well, here is the curveball, it doesn’t even appear to be working. After being on it for a month, I tested 120TT, 12.9 free T, and 9 sensitive E2 from quest.

Ironically I don’t really feel that bad. My joints ache and my muscle mass is vanishing before my eyes, but that’s it. Does this mean I am primary hypogonadal?

 

[Cataceous]

I think it's still a little early to draw any firm conclusions. Did you measure LH? That's a decent measure of your progress; if it's low then you need more time. If it's high then you have primary, which is less likely. The situation isn't quite the same, but I restarted under TRT with enclomiphene and it took a couple months to really see some results:

It also wouldn't surprise me if that LH of ~1 mIU/mL was barely creating any endogenous testosterone.

 

[Duece12345]

I did not test LH/FSH. I regret that. Well ill keep pressing on. Anything else other than diet, sleep, weight lifting to get the LH increasing faster??