Enclomiphene from Empower legit?

[Thegoalie39]

Is this quality stuff? Apparently Defy can still order it. Debating Clomid vs Enclomiphene for fertility. Anyone have experience with empowers? Sometimes I wonder if it's just clomid packaged as Enclomiphene. Help appreciated thanks

 

[JmarkH]

I get mine from Empower. The stuff works. Why wouldn't it? They're a legit pharmacy.

 

[CKO]

Yes it's legit. Enclomiphene is much better than chlomid for men. Lots of posts on it.

 

[Thegoalie39]

Yes it's legit. Enclomiphene is much better than chlomid for men. Lots of posts on it.

Awesome thank you

 

[Thegoalie39]

I get mine from Empower. The stuff works. Why wouldn't it? They're a legit pharmacy.

Someone on reddit was saying it may just be clomid and hated it so I wanted people than can vouch for empowers that it both works and feels different. I got hcg from them and it only gave me anxiety but I never got that from pregnyl. So wasn't sure but appreciate the reply

 

[JmarkH]

Wow. The India pharmacies online that have quote, enclomiphene, is in reality clomiphene. It says so on the back of the package. It sounds like the "someone" thought your Empower pharmacy was non-USA. A USA pharmacy has too much to lose by selling fake prescription medicines.

 

[mcs]

Does anyone know if there are other clinics than Defy that can prescribe enclomiphene?

 

[JmarkH]

The cost will be different. My clinic charges about 2x that of Defy.

 

[aneuman]

Couple of things:

1. Is Empower Enclomiphene legit? I have no reasons or evidence to think it's not. I've taken it, about $70 for 3 months (assuming 12.5mg every day)
2. You are deciding between Clomid and Enclomiphene. Here's an anecdote. I've taken Enclomiphene for the good part of two years, it puts my total T well above the reference range in just 3 months at 12.5 mg ever day, even 3 times a week puts it close to 900, but my symptoms did not actually improve. I know of another person, much, much younger than me, that had very, very low T levels. He was put on Enclomiphene 12.5mg/day just like me, and after 3 months his T levels were only in the 300 (he was at 125 before) and he did not notice that any of his symptoms improved. Recently he switched doctors and the new one put him on Clomid (not sure the dosage) but he noticed two things: in 3 months his total T went from 120 to 550 ng/dL, but more importantly, his symptoms improved noticeably. He's noticed no side effects (mood, gyno, vision, etc) and he's very happy with the results. He's concerned about fertility too, being a young man.

Another curious thing, and again, this is anecdotally and none should infer anything from it. Enclomipohene put my LH above the reference range, while FSH was high normal. In his case, Clomid put FSH well above the reference range while LH was high normal.

So I'm not saying Clomid is better than Enclomiphene, simply relating the experience of two people. In both cases the enclomiphene was from Empower. His new clomid is from a compounding pharmacy in Florida I believe.

 

[mcs]

Couple of things:

1. Is Empower Enclomiphene legit? I have no reasons or evidence to think it's not. I've taken it, about $70 for 3 months (assuming 12.5mg every day)
2. You are deciding between Clomid and Enclomiphene. Here's an anecdote. I've taken Enclomiphene for the good part of two years, it puts my total T well above the reference range in just 3 months at 12.5 mg ever day, even 3 times a week puts it close to 900, but my symptoms did not actually improve. I know of another person, much, much younger than me, that had very, very low T levels. He was put on Enclomiphene 12.5mg/day just like me, and after 3 months his T levels were only in the 300 (he was at 125 before) and he did not notice that any of his symptoms improved. Recently he switched doctors and the new one put him on Clomid (not sure the dosage) but he noticed two things: in 3 months his total T went from 120 to 550 ng/dL, but more importantly, his symptoms improved noticeably. He's noticed no side effects (mood, gyno, vision, etc) and he's very happy with the results. He's concerned about fertility too, being a young man.

Another curious thing, and again, this is anecdotally and none should infer anything from it. Enclomipohene put my LH above the reference range, while FSH was high normal. In his case, Clomid put FSH well above the reference range while LH was high normal.

So I'm not saying Clomid is better than Enclomiphene, simply relating the experience of two people. In both cases the enclomiphene was from Empower. His new clomid is from a compounding pharmacy in Florida I believe.

$70 for 3 months = $0.78 per capsule. If that is correct, may I ask the clinic you're getting that prescribed from?

 

[aneuman]

I'm sorry for the mistake. It's actually $150/3 months. And I have obtained the prescriptions from regular urologists (2 different ones). I have discussed with them the pros/cons, then agree on the prescription and they fax it to Empower. 2 hours later I received a call from empower to confirm the shipping and payment, 3 days later I get the medication. The reason I (incorrectly) said $70 is because I changed my frequency to 3 times a week, which actually reduced the effective cost to around $20 a month for me, but I still had to pay $150 for the 3 months. See Empower invoice below.

Notice that I'm not taking it anymore due to labs being "exceptionally well" but symptoms not really resolved.

 

[mcs]

I'm sorry for the mistake. It's actually $150/3 months. And I have obtained the prescriptions from regular urologists (2 different ones). I have discussed with them the pros/cons, then agree on the prescription and they fax it to Empower. 2 hours later I received a call from empower to confirm the shipping and payment, 3 days later I get the medication. The reason I (incorrectly) said $70 is because I changed my frequency to 3 times a week, which actually reduced the effective cost to around $20 a month for me, but I still had to pay $150 for the 3 months. See Empower invoice below.

Notice that I'm not taking it anymore due to labs being "exceptionally well" but symptoms not really resolved.
View attachment 33959

Thanks. That is ~27% cheaper than Defy's price for 12.5mg, I believe also sourced from Empower. I assume your doc isn't tacking on any profit.

What symptoms did you feel were not resolved?

Any side effects similar tyo clomiphene (i.e. ocular impairment)?

Did you observe any changes in body composition (fat loss, increase in lean mass)?

Are you considering transitioning to straight TRT if you continue to not see results other than looking good on paper?

 

[aneuman]

Thanks. That is ~27% cheaper than Defy's price for 12.5mg, I believe also sourced from Empower. I assume your doc isn't tacking on any profit.

As far as i understand, no. If there’s any deal it might be a kick back behind the sceen. As a matter of fact, the last doctor that prescribed it for me does not typically prescribe Enclomiphene, he uses clomid instead, he did so at my request, so i do not think there’s anything going on

What symptoms did you feel were not resolved?

None of the sexual symptoms. There was maybe an increase in wellbeing, perhaps less moodiness, but nothing to write home about. TT went up to 1138 ng/dL in about 3 months, but symptoms wise, nothing. In general, I could not say it did much in any sense

Any side effects similar tyo clomiphene (i.e. ocular impairment)?

sensitive nipples.Nothing else.

Did you observe any changes in body composition (fat loss, increase in lean mass)?

Not really, at least nothing significant, but I’m 60 years old.

Are you considering transitioning to straight TRT if you continue to not see results other than looking good on paper?

I tried Enclomiphene monotherapy at 12.5 mg/day, then 3 times a week, then combined with hCG. In general numbers improved with all treatments, but symproms not much. I felt better on hCG, at least my optimism was up, my sleep was better, my LUTS much better.

I have transitioned to TRT currently 30mg M-W-F for a total of 90 mg/week of testosterone cypionate, sub-q. Just finished my third week so too early to tell, but so far some minor improvements in sensitivity and orgasm, so it’s encouraging. On the other side of the ledger, some anxiety affecting sleep and GERD, so far both are manageable.

Hope this helps

 

[mcs]

As far as i understand, no. If there’s any deal it might be a kick back behind the sceen. As a matter of fact, the last doctor that prescribed it for me does not typically prescribe Enclomiphene, he uses clomid instead, he did so at my request, so i do not think there’s anything going on

None of the sexual symptoms. There was maybe an increase in wellbeing, perhaps less moodiness, but nothing to write home about. TT went up to 1138 ng/dL in about 3 months, but symptoms wise, nothing. In general, I could not say it did much in any sense

sensitive nipples.Nothing else.

Not really, at least nothing significant, but I’m 60 years old.


I tried Enclomiphene monotherapy at 12.5 mg/day, then 3 times a week, then combines with hCG. In general numbers improved with all treatments, but symproms not much. I felt better on hCG, at least my optimism was up, my sleep was better, my LUTS much better.

I have transitioned to TRT currently 30mg M-W-F for a total of 90 mg/week of testosterone cypionate, sub-q. Just finished my third week so too early to tell, but so far some minor improvements in sensitivity and orgasm, so it’s encouraging. On the other side of the ledger, some anxiety affecting sleep and GERD, so far both are manageable.

Hope this helps

Thanks for the response. I am 63, with some issues (hypertension, past blood clot, sleep apnea) for which I am being treated and stable. Both TT and FT are less than optimal. I wanted to first try compounds that could help optimize T levels naturally so I started with herbal boosters and recently, kisspeptin-10. Not surprisingly, I didn't ever see any increase with the boosters, but the KS-10 did seem to somewhat improve my FT level but not much for TT. Due to my aforementioned health issues, I have always been hesitant to start straight TRT since it can make all those things worse. I had known of enclomiphene for several years, but waited to see more anecdotal reports from users like yourself. I finally decided to try it, being aware that, like you and many others, you look great on paper, but get nothing in terms of the subjective benefits. At least I can put down for the record that I tried it before making the jump to TRT, dosing to be very similar to yours.
How long were you on enclomiphene and did you stop cold turkey and go immediately to TRT?

You mentioned nipple sensitivity on enclomiphene. Did you see an spike in estradiol?

Are you using any other compounds, supplements, etc. that you feel are helping you?
(I have been on Metformin for a year now, taking it for anti-aging and many other benefits, not diabetic. But it reduced my T levels by 40% after a few months).

Do you resistance train several times/week?

 

[aneuman]

Thanks for the response. I am 63, with some issues (hypertension, past blood clot, sleep apnea) for which I am being treated and stable. Both TT and FT are less than optimal. I wanted to first try compounds that could help optimize T levels naturally so I started with herbal boosters and recently, kisspeptin-10.

This is the same story of most people our age in this forum. At some point I had my paycheck deposited directly at the VitaminShoppe, then switched to Amazon, all for naught.

Not surprisingly, I didn't ever see any increase with the boosters, but the KS-10 did seem to somewhat improve my FT level but not much for TT. Due to my aforementioned health issues, I have always been hesitant to start straight TRT since it can make all those things worse.

I understand, hypertension and blood clots are something to be concerned about with TRT.

I had known of enclomiphene for several years, but waited to see more anecdotal reports from users like yourself. I finally decided to try it, being aware that, like you and many others, you look great on paper, but get nothing in terms of the subjective benefits. At least I can pout down for the record that I tried it before making the jump to TRT, dosing to be very similar to yours.

Same here, are copying me? ;-)

How long were you on enclomiphene and did you stop cold turkey and go immediately to TRT?

My story is more complex. I started with hCG, 2000IU/week in July 2021, in September I had the best two weeks of my post 50 year old life, in every sense, only to fade away after 2 weeks. I was on hCG for 2 more months, and then Empower Pharmacy stopped compounding hCG and i freaked out and quit cold turkey. My doctor put me on Enclomiphene 12.5 mg in January ‘22, after 3 months my total T was 768 (from 300) and at 6 months it was 1183 ng/dL, however, not much improvement. A bit more willing to workout, but nothing much. Then tendinitis started which I never had before (but I’d never been 58 before either).

Right at that time, FDA was leaning towards banning compounded Enclomiphene as well, so I quit cold turkey and switched urologist. Thinking of my experience with hCG, I asked him to prescribe it again, which he did. I tried it and although I felt better (wellbeing) libido and arousal were not where I wanted. I asked him about adding Enclomiphene 3 times a week, which he agreed. And nothing. Total T was 888 ng/dL, I felt well in general, but nothing much in terms of sexual health.

Here are the records from my time on Enclomiphene monotherapy at 12.5 mg/day

Last month I asked him about TRT and he agreed, so I quit hCG cold turkey and it was hard for the first week, but as soon as I started TRT things started to improve. Still my third week, so I cannot draw any conclusions. No labs either, but sexual health has started to slightly improve, so I’m hopeful. In terms of wellbeing, I’m a little anxious, but again, need to wait until everything stabilizes.

QuitIMG Enclomiphene cold turkey is not going to be a problem because your HPG is still working, there may be an adjustment but it won’t be critic. With hCG or TRT is hard, because both suppress your HP, so it takes time to restart and while T is low you are going to feel bad. TRT is worse, because at least with hCG the testes are working.

You mentioned nipple sensitivity on enclomiphene. Did you see an spike in estradiol?

Nipples are now sensitive and frequently erect, areola is normal (no change) and not puffy. No gynecomastia. Estradiol goes up with both Enclomiphene and hCG simply because test goes up. It was never above 50 pg/ml, average was probably 35 or 40. My urologist was not concerned.

Are you using any other compounds, supplements, etc. that you feel are helping you?

Nothing at the moment other than Cialis which I need for the prostate and vitamin D3/K2

(I have been on Metformin for a year now, taking it for anti-aging and many other benefits, not diabetic. But it reduced my T levels by 40% after a few months).

Even though I may take risks with “supplements” I’m not one to take prescription medications for “potential” benefits. No UGL or “Indian” pharmacies either.

Do you resistance train several times/week?

Yes, I do resistance training 4 times a week and walk 5 miles a day. I probably will reduce it to 3 times a week as my shoulders and elbows are killing me, and fill the other 2 days with rowing or light cardio.

Happy to answer any of your questions. I was once where you are and appreciate the help I got from this forum.

 

[phalloguy100]

@aneuman would you be willing to share your awesome Excel lab tracking spreadsheet to use as a template?

 

[aneuman]

Thanks to @Cataceous for helping me find the way to share it with you. I posted the question in the wrong thread.

Here you go @phalloguy100. This is how it works and some disclaimers:

• The lab range are based on Quest's and for E2, are not the sensitive assay
• The Optimal levels are based on research, reading a lot of studies, input from knowledgeable people on this forum such as @Cataceous and @readalot plus many others, and my goals and my own experience. Feel free to change it to your heart's content. I frequently tweak those values based on science... and guts :-D
• When a value is within the "optimal" category, they will turn green. If a value is within range of the lab, but outside "optimal" it will have a white background, if the results are outside the lab ranges it will turn red.
• The lines in dark orange are auto-calculated, so do not enter values there
• The units enclosed in a box are drop-down lists, meaning you can select the unit to convert from there. The reason for it is that a lot of research is done in units different from my labs, so it's easy to just switch units and compare while I'm reading.
• The Vermulen FreeT calculation is based on this. I know some may disagree on whether it's the best method or not; I just hope I'm not starting World War III.
• In the blue cells on row 5, enter the date you performed the labs (not the date you got the results). Line 4 above will calculate your age based on the "Year of Birth" on E1 above
• You can copy aand paste columns after column I as you need, the formulas will be replicated automatically. I included 3 for convenience.
• Finally, there may be errors, inaccuracies, or gross mistakes. I do this in my spare time, and I'm not responsible for anything, whether implied or expressed, regarding this spreadsheet. This workbook is provided for entertainment purposes only and should not be used to base any medical advice. Always consult your medical provider when making decisions about your health. I hereby disclaim all liability arising for the download, use or interpretation of this spreadsheet. (Sorry, I had to)

There's a second tab that says expected T Levels. This is more personal. I never got tested for T or E2 (or for anything for that matter) until I was in my 50s, so I don't know what my testosterone levels were in those golden years, so based on the assumption that testosterone decreases x% a year after 30, I took natural values values I had (2 set of them, no medications, fasting, etc) and walked backwards until I was 30 years old. I used the 3 most accepted rates of decrease I know: 2% a year, 1% a year and 0.8% a year (Massachusetts Aging Male study). I did the same with free testosterone using the two published values I was able to find, 3% and 2%. The green box encloses the values I could have had during those years based, assuming I was not an outlier. Then I averaged out all the values, which yielded 645 ng/dL for total T and 10.9 ng/dL for Free T, and those are kind of my targets now for TRT.

Hope it's useful for you. If you guys find t useful and have improvements I could make, please let me know. TRT analysis is not my full time job, but I'd be willing to spend a bit of time, when available to improve it.

Enjoy!

 

[phalloguy100]

@Nelson Vergel please see @aneuman’s spreadsheet above. It’s really, really helpful. Would you be interested in adding functionality like this to the website, so folks can track their labs here under their profile? Similar to how you can track penis size stats on Thunder’s Place.