Does your protocol include HCG?
ED vs EOD - Any difference?
- Thread starter S1W
- Start date
Yes - about 32mg EOD
Systemlord
Member
No, HCG increases estrogen and more is the last thing I need.
Is testicular atrophy a given for all men on TRT? My estradiol before TRT was 8. 6th week on TRT was 26. The jump was high. Should I be concerned? My next labs will be at the end of May
M
MarkM
Guest
I moved to ED injections from E3.5 in an effort to see if it would help control my HCT and Hb which have been higher than top of the range for about 15 years now. Other than that I was pretty dialed in and feeling good on the E3.5 protocol.
Started the ED protocol on 9/15/2018, just over 6 months ago. I feel just as good as I did on the E3.5 protocol and have seemed to get my HCT and Hb down under the top of the range. For approximately 14 years my HB averaged 18.5 and my HCT has averaged 54.5.
Since going to ED injections my Hb has averaged 17.5 and my HCT 50.5. While I would like to see them even lower, it is a big improvement for me. Also, for 14 1/2 years I donated blood every two months to keep my Hb and HCT at those high levels. Since going to every day I have not donated blood at all.
Another benefit is that over the years of donating blood every two months I had completed deleted my iron and ferritin levels. Now, I have ferritin levels of 153 and iron sitting at 135. Greatly improved.
I don't have a problem sticking myself everyday, especially when I feel real good, all my "key indicators" are in a nice spot. For me, sticking myself daily is just part of my morning routing when I get up, shower and shave.
Most people wouldn't have tried ED when they were already dialed in like I was (except for the HCT and Hb). They probably would have left it alone because it can bee very difficult to get yourself in a place where you feel dialed in. But I figured I didn;t have anything to lose, I could always go back to E3.5 if I wanted to.......but I don't.
I use a 29 gauge 1/2" Easytouch syringe and inject IM in the deltoid and VG. At my age I am not to concerned about scar tissue on such a small gauge needle.
This worked for me, not saying it will work for you, because we are all different. Just sharing my experiment and the results.
Started the ED protocol on 9/15/2018, just over 6 months ago. I feel just as good as I did on the E3.5 protocol and have seemed to get my HCT and Hb down under the top of the range. For approximately 14 years my HB averaged 18.5 and my HCT has averaged 54.5.
Since going to ED injections my Hb has averaged 17.5 and my HCT 50.5. While I would like to see them even lower, it is a big improvement for me. Also, for 14 1/2 years I donated blood every two months to keep my Hb and HCT at those high levels. Since going to every day I have not donated blood at all.
Another benefit is that over the years of donating blood every two months I had completed deleted my iron and ferritin levels. Now, I have ferritin levels of 153 and iron sitting at 135. Greatly improved.
I don't have a problem sticking myself everyday, especially when I feel real good, all my "key indicators" are in a nice spot. For me, sticking myself daily is just part of my morning routing when I get up, shower and shave.
Most people wouldn't have tried ED when they were already dialed in like I was (except for the HCT and Hb). They probably would have left it alone because it can bee very difficult to get yourself in a place where you feel dialed in. But I figured I didn;t have anything to lose, I could always go back to E3.5 if I wanted to.......but I don't.
I use a 29 gauge 1/2" Easytouch syringe and inject IM in the deltoid and VG. At my age I am not to concerned about scar tissue on such a small gauge needle.
This worked for me, not saying it will work for you, because we are all different. Just sharing my experiment and the results.
How long did it take to get your ferritin and iron levels up once you stopped donating? And were you doing anything specific to get those levels up? Like taking an iron supplement, taking vitamin c, eating more red meat or things like that?
madman
Super Moderator
It is a common cosmetic side-effect of trt as ones hpta is shutdown and the pituitary no longer releases LH/FSH which stimulates the testes to produce testosterone/sperm.
LH stimulates the Leydig cells in the testis to produce ITT (intra-testicular testosterone) and FSH stimulates the germ/sertoli cells to produce sperm (spermatogenesis).
The degree of atrophy one experiences depends on the individual as everyone is different.....some will notice a lot of shrinkage as oppose to others who will notice minimal shrinkage.
If one has descent size testes pre-trt shrinkage may not be as noticeable than one with smaller testes.
This can be prevented by using hCG along with testosterone as not only will hCG prevent testicular atrophy but it will also aid in preserving ones fertility/producing sperm.
Majority of atrophy is a result of atrophy of the seminiferous tubules which account for 80-90% of testicular volume and along with atrophy of the leydig cells which account for 10-20% of testicular volume.
M
MarkM
Guest
I went to daily injections on September 15th and the lab results for my iron and ferritin are from January 16th. So that was right at 4 months. I was taking a product called Ferrex 150 which is a polysaccharide iron which I had read good things about. I also took a product called Thorne Ferrasorb and Cardiovascular Research Ferritin which is iron from bovine ferritin. Some may say overkill but my levels were basically none existent. I take 1000 mg of Vitamin C when I take them and I take them at night before going to bed. It will make your bowel movements very dark or black. I plan to keep taking this protocol until I get my iron and ferritin up a little more. Actually my iron is pretty good but I'd like to see the ferritin come up more. I get blood work on a regular basis to monitor it.
Awesome, thanks! Very helpful. So I’ll continue taking vitamin C with my iron, as I think it definitely contributed to your levels raising so quickly. Obviously along with the overkill amount of iron you were taking lol.
Did all this iron make your HGB and HCT sky rocket?
Also, what form of vitamin C were you taking? Synthetic or from whole food, like a acerola cherry powder for example.
M
MarkM
Guest
Well my HCT and Hb are down from my averages and within ranges for the first time in 15 years. I am thinking when I back off the iron supplementation the HCT and Hb will drop. I am taking chewable wafers for vitamin c.
I hear you. It makes sense. I was hoping I wouldn’t have to take HCG but a lot of guys take it and do well on it. I really don’t want my testicles to change and my Dr said that if I notice signs of atrophy I should give him a call. He said is reversible.
TorontoTRT
Active Member
I’m really enjoying my new 72 mg E5D protocol. E7D wasn’t good, E3.5D also wasn’t good.
You’re taking 142mg every 10 days or 426mg every 30 days. May you elaborate as to how it makes you feel differently?
TorontoTRT
Active Member
I look at it as 100 mg a week total. So at 100 mg once a week my TT was over 1200 and free T 29. But after the initial honeymoon stage it just plateaued. Didn’t feel bad, just neutral. Libido kinda went down again and morning wood was hit and miss. Hematocrit went up to about 53. Dropped down to 40 mg every 3.5 days (total 80 mg a week) and it was complete garbage. No libido, no morning wood, crazy acne and hematocrit went up even higher to 55. Now on 72 mg every 5 days things are good. Libido mid range daily, morning wood most days, no more acne breakouts, and feeling good everyday. Blood tests pending to see how hematocrit is reacting.
Thanks for your detailed response. Do you use hCG?
TorontoTRT
Active Member
No HCG. No AI.
Your T is high compared to mine. Much higher. I take 140mg/cypionate a week and it’s only at 700 as reported on my labs at week 6 on TRT. My monthly dosage is 560mg. No HCG or AI either.
TorontoTRT
Active Member
700 measured how long after injection? What’s your SHBG?
My lab was taken 7 days after my last injection, I was injecting only once a week. My SHBG I don’t know what it is. I can’t access my labs online because I’m abroad and they blocked me. Likewise CVS.com won’t let me order refills “because I’m in a different country at the time”.
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