E2 at 12 on sensitive test after 4 weeks...help

[wesley_tinker]

Got my E2 back and it's still low after I've been off AI for 4 weeks. Still feel like crap. Mood is low, energy is low, sleep is bad, etc.. I've added a soy supplement the last 2 weeks. Does anyone have any suggestions??

TT was 618
FT was 203

 

[Vettester Chris]

Wesley, if I understand things correctly, you crashed your E2 while taking too much AI, is that correct?

I've been there, and I can attest that the rebound doesn't always come back in timely fashion. For some guys it's just as simple as stopping the AI, continue TRT treatment and E2 converts downstream and rebounds quickly. For others it can take several months, as in my case. Why exactly that is (?), hard to say, as it could be a factor with 5-AR reductase activity, and/or possible metabolism factors associated with the liver. Unless some puts it under the scientific scope, it's mostly speculation, but it is a condition that can happen.

In my situation, I have some genetic issues related with hemochromatosis, and my liver function isn't all that optimal. Again, I can't confirm the correlation, but it's one of my theories considering the liver's role with regulation, methylation and metabolism of hormones.

There's been some discussion about the effects on the adrenals. First, as you've experienced, you start to find out just how important estrogen can be when you DON'T have any! For me, my immune system was a wreck for several months, where I probably caught 3 to 4 colds. I've been used to the 1x per year if that. Nails get weak, hair looks like crap, skin tone sucks, and yes it has an effect on cortisol and the adrenals. If that kicks in then there could be further effects across the way with thyroid activity, and increased Reverse T3 and suppression of ATP. The best thing to measure this is labs and a good physician!

I wish I could tell you that it will be real soon ... I can't. Possibly it will be right around the corner, or possibly it will take longer. Since you're on TRT, I recommend that you only inject 1x per week, and maybe with your physician's guidance you can get your serum up a little more to help promote more E2 conversion.

I'm sure you have heard to eat soy, flax and all that stuff, I won't reiterate it. However, I would highly encourage that you maintain a positive diet with lots of vegetables, protein, and make sure you get ample amounts of minerals and vitamins. I will say this, when it starts rebounding at a steady rate you might experience some overly sensitive activity with the receptors in the nipple region. It's not uncommon during the rebound so don't wig out. Talk to your physician about having a little Nolvadex/Tamox on hand, and little meaning 10mg/day can in most cases mitigate the E2 sensitivity issues (just my opinion). It's actually a good thing when you get to that stage, as you then know that your E2 is making a comeback!

Hang in there and stay patient!!

 

[wesley_tinker]

It's been extremely hard! My mood is definitely down in the dumps and I do believe my cortisol is screwed up because I wake up wide awake between 2 and 4. I started taking a soy supplement, b complex and an adrenal support. I'm just really wanting to feel better ha. Would adding HCG help with the conversion? Thank you for your advice!

 

[Vettester Chris]

On the cortisol, take the speculation out and get a 4x Saliva panel taken. I'll help you with understanding the circadian profile and cortisol burden, which will also include DHEA. As mentioned, thyroid activity will also be directly impacted by what the adrenals are doing. Not sure what you can or cannot do, but would really like to also see Free T4, Free T3, Reverse T3, TSH, & antibody labs TPO and TgAb.

Depending on testicular capability, HCG has the ability to increase endogenous serum level, as it will mimic the LH analogue. In some cases intratesticular aromatase activity will also contribute to increased circulation of E2 as a result, but it just depends on the patient and each individual situation. Possibly review of potential protocol with your doctor.

 

[Gene Devine]

Excellent Chris, thank you!

 

[wesley_tinker]

If my cortisol is messed up, would bringing my E2 into optimal range help? I've read horror stories of people with adrenal fatigue and how long it takes them to recover, I don't want to be that. I am trying to get a saliva test now through my doctor and i'll call and see if I can get a thyroid panel done too. I had my TSH checked a few weeks ago and it was at .09, my primary didn't seem concerned, he said low is good.
I posted my concern on the ******** page but had several guys on there arguing with Gene and basically making me look like an idiot, i'm new to this stuff.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

My estradiol has been undetectable for a while and I never took an AI. I may try low dose Clomid or a very low dose estradiol cream.

 

[wesley_tinker]

I will try to get some, thanks! I'm really worried about my adrenals now after what everyone has said. I'm learning a very tough lesson through this, it's really wearing on me mentally.

 

[Vettester Chris]

If my cortisol is messed up, would bringing my E2 into optimal range help? I've read horror stories of people with adrenal fatigue and how long it takes them to recover, I don't want to be that. I am trying to get a saliva test now through my doctor and i'll call and see if I can get a thyroid panel done too. I had my TSH checked a few weeks ago and it was at .09, my primary didn't seem concerned, he said low is good.
I posted my concern on the ******** page but had several guys on there arguing with Gene and basically making me look like an idiot, i'm new to this stuff.

Weslley, the TSH only lab is a inappropriate (using kind words) way to make any real diagnosis on the thyroid. Pituitary function can be fatigue or have a disorder, and thyroid hormone levels can still be in the tank. Additionally, none of that will account for Reverse T3, which is what I'm looking for as a marker in conjunction with your cortisol labs. I don't want to create a controversy with your current physician, but I think you might need to consider talking with a doctor that is better equipped in this arena.

Also, yes, thing can improve as E2 rebounds. The body's objective is always to find homeostasis, so naturally the adrenals would look to improve as well "IF" certain values are out of balance. However, it's not to say if for some reason your adrenals are shot that you might not need some type of HC therapy, or some sort of CT3M support. For now, that's just all speculation and the cart is way ahead of the horse! Labs will talk the talk, and if something is a concern the best route will be getting with a doctor that can do follow up exams and provide you with adequate treatment. It's really all there is to it.

 

[wesley_tinker]

I'm working on getting some labs done. My dr is 2 hours away, so it gets challenging.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Where is your closest Labcorp or Quest office? Your doctor can call in the lab request there.

 

[wesley_tinker]

I'm hoping my doctor will order the tests. I've never had experience with asking them to order labs. Should I just ask them to call in thyroid panel and saliva test?

 

[wesley_tinker]

So after 3 dr's and several days of frustration I finally got my cortisol saliva test and thyroid checked. My cortisol was extremely low throughout the day and my thyroid was low but within range. The dr I finally convinced to check everything is an integrated medicine dr, in which he mainly only does herbal and natural supplements as well as diet. He started me on panex ginseng to raise my cortisol and lay off the gym for at least a month to let my adrenals heal properly, and wants to run a nutrional panel to make sure i'm not deficient in any nutrients. He couldn't tell me a time frame to feel better. But he said low cortisol can cause extreme fatigue, depression, poor sleep patterns, and blood sugar issues (all of which is going on with me). Have you guys ever experienced this? And do you have any tips?

 

[Gene Devine]

Sure does sound like Adrenal Fatigue.

Looks like your Doc may know what he's doing as this really is a lifestyle issue and can be corrected with the right changes.

We're all different so how long it takes is anyones guess.

Just hang in there and keep us posted on your progression.