Does hcg lower e2?

[OMI100]

Started on HCG at 125IU/day along with my TD "T" cream. I have been taking a verrrrrry low dose AI. The 2 most recent labs (a week apart) show a SIGNIFICANT drop in E2 on the sensitive test? Lab a month earlier was great?
09-11-2015 NO HCG
E2 = 23 (8-35)
FREE T = 15.7 (6.6-18.1)
11-05-2015 WITH HCG
E2 = 29.7 (8-35)
TOTAL T = 785 (348-1197)
FREE T = 11.6 (6.6-18.1)
12-08-2015 APPLIED TD "T" CREAM 2 HRS BEFOR BY MISTAKE.
E2 = 2.9 (8-35)
TOTAL T = 1037 (348-1197)
FREE T = 18.4 (6.6-18.1)
12-15-2015 NO MEDS OR TD "T" CREAM IN THE AM BEFOR BW
E2 = 6.7 (8-35)
TOTAL T = 815 (348-1197)
FREE T = 16.5 (6.6-18.1)
The ONLY OTHER THING that I changed was adding in 1000mcg METH B12. SQ per week.
Total and free T are great on all the test.
Starting tomorrow NO AI for me for 30 days to see where this is all going....
Thoughts......

 

[ERO]

Like many of us here on the forum, you are likely a guy that just dosen't need an AI.

HCG does not lower E2, and some guys can even raise it slightly, but you look good to go as long as you are feeling good as well?

 

[OMI100]

Historically I have been around (E2) upper 20's lower 30's for ever on a small dose of AI. Now I have 2 lab test, back to back, that show a drop of around 20 points plus? Has to be a reason???

 

[CoastWatcher]

I have never needed an AI. I adjusted my protocol to increase the frequency of injections when estradiol started climbing. You may simply not need an AI either. Have you lost weight? That can, in some instances, lower your estradiol level.

 

[Vince]

I definitely would try giving up the AI and I believe you're better off without an AI.

 

[OMI100]

Been on transdermal cream the whole time. I do NOT inject "T" and never have. I am one that does verrrry well on a TD. Look at my labs posted. I have labs 2 hrs AFTER applying my cream and labs where I did not apply any cream or take any other meds. Those 2 labs a week apart give a peak and valley for my testosterone. Verrrry good range... I don't think my E2 magically (after all this time) will self adjust to over a 20 point drop within a month???????

 

[ERO]

Been on transdermal cream the whole time. I do NOT inject "T" and never have. I am one that does verrrry well on a TD. Look at my labs posted. I have labs 2 hrs AFTER applying my cream and labs where I did not apply any cream or take any other meds. Those 2 labs a week apart give a peak and valley for my testosterone. Verrrry good range... I don't think my E2 magically (after all this time) will self adjust to over a 20 point drop within a month???????

Its probably a testing error. As noted above HCG does not lower E2 but can raise it, so its a 99% probability that either 1) You don't need any AI like many of us here, or 2) testing error.

 

[maxadvance]

Your free T seems low to me, under to barely over 2% of total T. You like have a very high SHBG, you should look at you DHEA levels as well get a SHBG reading. Supplementing with DHEA could help with that, I take a Keto-7 supplement. You didn't mention what in your opinion is "extremely' low dose ai, what is it?

 

[Gene Devine]

Been on transdermal cream the whole time. I do NOT inject "T" and never have. I am one that does verrrry well on a TD. Look at my labs posted. I have labs 2 hrs AFTER applying my cream and labs where I did not apply any cream or take any other meds. Those 2 labs a week apart give a peak and valley for my testosterone. Verrrry good range... I don't think my E2 magically (after all this time) will self adjust to over a 20 point drop within a month???????

Most men on a transdermal don't ever need an AI simply do to the fact that they administer smaller doses daily so there is never a spike in serum levels.

This is one reason why we do injections now twice weekly...same reasoning.

It's why I always say "in TRT lower doses more frequently is better" and that's the truth!

 

[Gene Devine]

Your free T seems low to me, under to barely over 2% of total T. You like have a very high SHBG, you should look at you DHEA levels as well get a SHBG reading. Supplementing with DHEA could help with that, I take a Keto-7 supplement. You didn't mention what in your opinion is "extremely' low dose ai, what is it?

OT: 7-Keto DHEA is not the same as DHEA; it's a metabolite of DHEA.

They are different and act differently in the body.

 

[OMI100]

"Its probably a testing error."
2 test a week apart. If it is a testing error than the lab apparatuses used to run the test has been out of calibration for over a week and no one has noticed. That was my first thought on the first set of results (testing error). BUT with the 2nd test in the same range????
"You didn't mention what in your opinion is "extremely' low dose ai, what is it?"
0.035mg anastrozol every 4 days. Been at this dose for over a year.... might even be 2 years...
"Most men on a transdermal don't ever need an AI simply do to the fact that they administer smaller doses daily so there is never a spike in serum levels."
Yep on not getting a spike. I have 2 sets of labs ran a week apart with one AFTER I applied and the other BEFOR application that clearly shows the range I am in on a daily basis.
My question still remains........ Why do I now see a 20 point plus drop in my E2 to ranges that are not healthy when I only added in HCG and B12????? If testing error than LabCorp has some SERIOUS issues at the lab where my blood went too....

 

[OMI100]

FWIW
Labs ran on 3-26-2015
TOTAL T = 771 (348-1197)
E2 = 24 (8-35)
DHT = 117
DHEA-S = 323 (30.9-295.6)

 

[DS431]

Most men on a transdermal don't ever need an AI simply do to the fact that they administer smaller doses daily so there is never a spike in serum levels.

This is one reason why we do injections now twice weekly...same reasoning.

It's why I always say "in TRT lower doses more frequently is better" and that's the truth!

I'm waiting for my results of my most recent estradiol test (22 Dec), which this time is an "ultra sensitive test". My previous estradiol tests most likely were not sensitive. I wasn't concerned with the numbers as they read 24, which should be good. I and my doctor were oblivious that the .25mg nightly was too much until I consulted y'all about my shoulder pain, and in your opinion that high dose was the cause for the myalgia. I've decreased the dose to .25mg weekly (Wed nights) and my shoulder pain has virtually disappeared. Depending on the results I intend on taking .035mg or so nightly if I need an AI. I was taking the AI heavy dose for several months. I apply 7 pumps daily of Fortesta gel with my test level averaging 800 or so. Do you know how long it may take for my estradiol to recover after it plummeted?

 

[ERO]

It can take up to several weeks.

 

[ERO]

"Its probably a testing error."
2 test a week apart. If it is a testing error than the lab apparatuses used to run the test has been out of calibration for over a week and no one has noticed. That was my first thought on the first set of results (testing error). BUT with the 2nd test in the same range????
"You didn't mention what in your opinion is "extremely' low dose ai, what is it?"
0.035mg anastrozol every 4 days. Been at this dose for over a year.... might even be 2 years...
"Most men on a transdermal don't ever need an AI simply do to the fact that they administer smaller doses daily so there is never a spike in serum levels."
Yep on not getting a spike. I have 2 sets of labs ran a week apart with one AFTER I applied and the other BEFOR application that clearly shows the range I am in on a daily basis.
My question still remains........ Why do I now see a 20 point plus drop in my E2 to ranges that are not healthy when I only added in HCG and B12????? If testing error than LabCorp has some SERIOUS issues at the lab where my blood went too....

The more important question should be, how to you feel? If you don't feel like your E2 is too low or too high, then the number itself doesn't really matter does it?

 

[OMI100]

My question still remains:
"........ Why do I now see a 20 point plus drop in my E2 to ranges (with last 2 lab runs, when I have 2 years of constant steady readings in the mid 20's to lower 30's) readings that are not healthy when I only added in HCG and B12?????"
Some of the research that Nelson has posted indicates that E2 in the ranges I showed on my last 2 blood draws can develop into serious medical issues.
I will stop all AI and re-test in a month and see where I am at then.

 

[OMI100]

O.K. Got labs back.... Stopped NO AI for a month... See last set of labs
*********************
*********************
Labs ran on 3-26-2015
TOTAL T = 771 (348-1197)
E2 = 24 (8-35)
DHT = 117
DHEA-S = 323 (30.9-295.6)
***************
****************
09-11-2015 NO HCG
E2 = 23 (8-35)
FREE T = 15.7 (6.6-18.1)
******************
******************
11-05-2015 WITH HCG
E2 = 29.7 (8-35)
TOTAL T = 785 (348-1197)
FREE T = 11.6 (6.6-18.1)
*****************
*****************
12-08-2015 APPLIED TD "T" CREAM 2 HRS BEFOR BY MISTAKE.
E2 = 2.9 (8-35)
TOTAL T = 1037 (348-1197)
FREE T = 18.4 (6.6-18.1)
****************
***************
12-15-2015 NO MEDS OR TD "T" CREAM IN THE AM BEFOR BW
E2 = 6.7 (8-35)
TOTAL T = 815 (348-1197)
FREE T = 16.5 (6.6-18.1)
*****************
*****************
1/15/2016
E2 = 3.5 (8-35)
TOTAL T = 815 (348-1197)
FREE T = 21.8 (6.6-18.1)
SHBG = 40.4 (19.3-76.4)
DHT = 243
DHEA-S = 19.6 (30.9-295.6)

My E2 went down after I stopped what little AI I was taking..............
????? What is going on??
I ran a bunch of other test and will post a roll-up in the BW forum.....

 

[Gene Devine]

E2 = 3.5 (8-35)
Your E2 is very low and not even close to mid range where you want to be. Are you taking an AI? If so, you may want to halt it and see where your E2 levels off at.


TOTAL T = 815 (348-1197)
About perfect!


FREE T = 21.8 (6.6-18.1)
Sweet!


SHBG = 40.4 (19.3-76.4)
About perfect!


DHT = 243
And the reference range is?


DHEA-S = 19.6 (30.9-295.6)
Start supplementing with 25 mg of DHEA twice daily. This is one where we like it at the top of the reference range.


My E2 went down after I stopped what little AI I was taking..............
????? What is going on??
Was your E2 lab using the Sensitive assay> If not, then it's useless. Your E2 levels should have gone up a bit after you stopped so something is not right. Make sure your lab is the Sensitive assay for E2....very important.


I ran a bunch of other test and will post a roll-up in the BW forum.....

\

 

[OMI100]

DHT was ran through LE and did not have any ref ranges on the results. Just said HIGH. I will call them and ask what the deal is today at work.
E2 was through discounted labs and was E2 sensitive (LC/MS/MS).
ALL THE E2 TEST WERE THE SENSITIVE.
NO AI FOR A MONTH!!!!
Some other test are a bit off like my thyroid. Will post wrap-up in the BW forum with additional data.
YEP strange where my E2 has gone after starting HCG. Cause and effect or?

 

[Vince Carter]

I see it as apples and oranges comparison, you're not repeating anything verbatim from one test to another, that I can see, so it's all pointless to debate it.