Does anyone use Nandrolone (Deca Durabolin) ?

[Vince]

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[DS3]

Disagree. Nandrolone do produces more lean mass and are more anabolic than Testosterone.

@bochinit @madman

To add some color to this discussion...

Claims such as this are nothing without data, be it clinical or strong calculated anecdotal form.

On that note, here is some data suggesting that at equal doses of 300 mg, testosterone produces more lean muscle mass than does nandrolone. Nandrolone appears to be more efficacious in lower dosages (~100 mg per week) than testosterone at an equal dosage, but testosterone's efficacy overshadows that of nandrolone when using higher dosages (~300 mg weekly).

Comparison of the effects of high dose testosterone and 19-nortestosterone to a replacement dose of testosterone on strength and body composition in normal men - PubMed

Below is a breakdown of the study I posted on another thread.

 

[bochinit]

@bochinit @madman

To add some color to this discussion...

Claims such as this are nothing without data, be it clinical or strong calculated anecdotal form.

On that note, here is some data suggesting that at equal doses of 300 mg, testosterone produces more lean muscle mass than does nandrolone. Nandrolone appears to be more efficacious in lower dosages (~100 mg per week) than testosterone at an equal dosage, but testosterone's efficacy overshadows that of nandrolone when using higher dosages (~300 mg weekly).

Comparison of the effects of high dose testosterone and 19-nortestosterone to a replacement dose of testosterone on strength and body composition in normal men - PubMed

Below is a breakdown of the study I posted on another thread.

View attachment 11098

Ok, I am not desagreing that test can build muscle, just talking about colaterals. In my situation, that I can't use high test, what would you do? Push more T and became a sick-angry monster or use other anabolics while feeling fine and reaching my goals? We have to consider individuality here. I don't like how testosterone makes me feel or look as majority of people. I don't know why someone has to be stupid because of my opinion. It's a forum and aperantly we can't express different points out of rule. Btw, every forum that I had joined people act like this..

 

[madman]

Test is a dirty compoung and you saying it just make me think that you never used anything else. But go ahead and keep pushing your bro-lore around, forums are full with people like you anyways.

I don't like it by experience and glad I will not follow these stupid rules of people online that don't care about others health. My choice vs your choice. It's individual.

And in regards of me in personal.. well I don't have more money than you at 20' for working at wallmart or anything else. Go ahead and say whatever you want to try catch me, cause I will not care.

Test is a dirty compoung and you saying it just make me think that you never used anything else.

For you to speak such says it all.....lol.....hope you do understand that testosterone is the primary sex hormone and anabolic steroid in males.


I don't like it by experience and glad I will not follow these stupid rules of people online that don't care about others health.

When you have the time to read through all my threads/posts since I came to the forum let me know!

 

[bochinit]

Test is a dirty compoung and you saying it just make me think that you never used anything else.

For you to speak such says it all.....lol.....hope you do understand that testosterone is the primary sex hormone and anabolic steroid in males.


I don't like it by experience and glad I will not follow these stupid rules of people online that don't care about others health.

When you have the time to read through all my threads/posts since I came to the forum let me know!

You may be a good contribuitor on forum but you act like a jerk, as many people on internet, when contraried. And I'm tired of these people.

 

[madman]

bochinit said:
Test is a dirty compoung and you saying it just make me think that you never used anything else. But go ahead and keep pushing your bro-lore around, forums are full with people like you anyways.

I don't like it by experience and glad I will not follow these stupid rules of people online that don't care about others health. My choice vs your choice. It's individual.

And in regards of me in personal.. well I don't have more money than you at 20' for working at wallmart or anything else. Go ahead and say whatever you want to try catch me, cause I will not care.








My choice vs your choice. It's individual.

EXACTLY!




You may be a good contribuitor on forum but you act like a jerk, as many people on internet, when contraried. And I'm tired of these people.

Yes, I can be harsh at times.




Ok, I am not desagreing that test can build muscle, just talking about colaterals. In my situation, that I can't use high test, what would you do? Push more T and became a sick-angry monster or use other anabolics while feeling fine and reaching my goals? We have to consider individuality here. I don't like how testosterone makes me feel or look as majority of people. I don't know why someone has to be stupid because of my opinion. It's a forum and aperantly we can't express different points out of rule. Btw, every forum that I had joined people act like this..



Ok, I am not desagreing that test can build muscle, just talking about colaterals.

Now you are changing your tune.....sway easily you do.

I could see right through you from the beginning since you came to excel it is in your posts.

Like I said think a little deeper before shooting off at the mouth about things and at least have the decency to put your picture up so I can see who I am speaking to.




In my situation, that I can't use high test, what would you do? Push more T and became a sick-angry monster or use other anabolics while feeling fine and reaching my goals? We have to consider individuality here.

Do what is best for you!




I don't like how testosterone makes me feel or look as majority of people. I don't know why someone has to be stupid because of my opinion. It's a forum and aperantly we can't express different points out of rule. Btw, every forum that I had joined people act like this..

There you go again and you very well know the majority of men on hrt are using testosterone.

Block me than problem solved!

 

[bochinit]

No, I prefer to let you keep holding the title of douchebag who fights for nothing when someone thinks different from you.

 

[madman]

No, I prefer to let you keep holding the title of douchebag who fights for nothing when someone thinks different from you.

bochinit said:
Test is a dirty compoung

This is downright embarrassing to state such!

 

[DS3]

Ok, I am not desagreing that test can build muscle, just talking about colaterals. In my situation, that I can't use high test, what would you do? Push more T and became a sick-angry monster or use other anabolics while feeling fine and reaching my goals? We have to consider individuality here. I don't like how testosterone makes me feel or look as majority of people. I don't know why someone has to be stupid because of my opinion. It's a forum and aperantly we can't express different points out of rule. Btw, every forum that I had joined people act like this..

@bochinit I feel you on not being able to use high levels of testosterone without experiencing anger/aggression. I am the same.

My intent here was not to dissuade you from seeking alternative methods of reaching your goals. Simply, I wanted to clear the air and demonstrate that the data does not support the notion that nandrolone is better at building muscle than testosterone.

However, nandrolone has clear therapeutic properties to it that can be used successfully within clinical settings to mitigate side effects of testosterone and increase anabolism. So I don't discourage you from using it.

 

[bochinit]

bochinit said:
Test is a dirty compoung

This is downright embarrassing to state such!

And it is. Why you think it is the cheaper steroid? And why you think other anabolics was created for use instead of test if this steroid is 100% efficient in all aspects? I suggest you get down your pod and open your mind. I was like you before when I let stupid people on internet manipulate me. I am not anymore. You should try to evolve too.

 

[bochinit]

@bochinit I feel you on not being able to use high levels of testosterone without experiencing anger/aggression. I am the same.

My intent here was not to dissuade you from seeking alternative methods of reaching your goals. Simply, I wanted to clear the air and demonstrate that the data does not support the notion that nandrolone is better at building muscle than testosterone.

However, nandrolone has clear therapeutic properties to it that can be used successfully within clinical settings to mitigate side effects of testosterone and increase anabolism. So I don't discourage you from using it.

And how you managed it?

 

[madman]

And it is. Why you think it is the cheaper steroid? And why you think other anabolics was created for use instead of test if this steroid is 100% efficient in all aspects? I suggest you get down your pod and open your mind. I was like you before when I let stupid people on internet manipulate me. I am not anymore. You should try to evolve too.

 

[DS3]

And how you managed it?

Adding HCG at 250 IU twice per week has significantly improved my mood and emotions. Adding Toremifene at 80 mg 2x per week has allowed me to drop the AI and solely rely on Torem for managing estrogen, which has worked phenomenally for me.

By adding Toremifene and HCG I can run higher doses of testosterone and maintain a good, calm mood.

On testosterone alone, I’m a wreck.

 

[Sly]

Doesn’t this worry you though. If the joint pain comes back then it’s not healing and when your are on nandrolone and the joint pain subsides then you’ll most like hit the joint harder and causes more damage?
I’m concerned that I’m only accelerating the age related joint problems I’ve already got.

Adding HCG at 250 IU twice per week has significantly improved my mood and emotions. Adding Toremifene at 80 mg 2x per week has allowed me to drop the AI and solely rely on Torem for managing estrogen, which has worked phenomenally for me.

By adding Toremifene and HCG I can run higher doses of testosterone and maintain a good, calm mood.

On testosterone alone, I’m a wreck.

I also need HCG to balance my testosterone protocol. I tried dropping the HCG , but didn’t feel as good. I also noticed an improvement went I upped my HCG dose from 500IU per week to 1,000IU per week. That combined with 200mg test per week is my sweet spot. I also dropped the AI. My Estradiol is high at around 70, but I feel good.

 

[S1W]

I personally use nandrolone and test because I can keep my total blood testosterone level a bit higher than I can with testosterone alone, while keeping my estrogen where I want it with no AI needed.

Could you please expand on how you accomplish this? For example, maybe share your pre ND protocol with TT, FT, E2 and your current Test+ND protocol with TT, FT, E2?

Would be very much appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Vince]

Yeah we’re getting pretty abusive. Let’s keep it clean. I really like this thread, I would hate to have it closed.

 

[slicktop]

Could you please expand on how you accomplish this? For example, maybe share your pre ND protocol with TT, FT, E2 and your current Test+ND protocol with TT, FT, E2?

Would be very much appreciated. Thanks!

I'd have to dig up my exact numbers, but basically on daily injections of 20mg of test enanthate (140 a week), I was at total t of ~820 and free t was around 19. I had to take anastrozole 2x a week to keep my estrogen in the low 30's, which is consistently the highest I can get it without side effects. That was a significant improvement over every other day or every 3.5 days on cypionate at any dosage. Anyways, switching to daily 16 mg of test enanthate plus 16mg of nandrolone has me around a total of about ~1000, but more importantly, my free t is around 22 and I don't need any AI to keep my estrogen at 30 or below, and I feel absolutely great. Mood is great, libido is strong, energy level is great, zero side effects. I'm happy happy happy. At 42 I can work out 2x a day (cardio first thing in the morning and resistance training in the late afternoon) and still keep up with the teenager, the toddler, the wife, and the dog... provided I get enough sleep!

 

[Cataceous]

... Anyways, switching to daily 16 mg of test enanthate plus 16mg of nandrolone has me around a total of about ~1000, but more importantly, my free t is around 22 and I don't need any AI to keep my estrogen at 30 or below, and I feel absolutely great. ...

So to clarify, ~1,000 ng/dL is measuring the combination of testosterone and nandrolone due to cross-reactivity of the test?

 

[slicktop]

So to clarify, ~1,000 ng/dL is measuring the combination of testosterone and nandrolone due to cross-reactivity of the test?

I *think* the way my NP explained it to me was that the nandrolone bound to SHBG and androgen receptors more readily than testosterone, thereby "raising" free testosterone and total test simply because less of the test was binding at any given point. I do not believe that nandrolone shows up as test on bloodwork, but please don't take that as gospel. Hopefully one of the Defy guys will come along shortly and clarify/correct me here.

Another benefit I didn't mention before is the "rice crispies" noises from my shoulders when I overhead press are now gone after being on nandrolone for awhile, and I firmly believe it helped me get over a severe knee sprain I suffered on a long backcountry hike last summer. I offer nothing but anecdotal comment on that, I can't science it up for ya, sorry.

 

[SSHSSA74]

I'd have to dig up my exact numbers, but basically on daily injections of 20mg of test enanthate (140 a week), I was at total t of ~820 and free t was around 19. I had to take anastrozole 2x a week to keep my estrogen in the low 30's, which is consistently the highest I can get it without side effects. That was a significant improvement over every other day or every 3.5 days on cypionate at any dosage. Anyways, switching to daily 16 mg of test enanthate plus 16mg of nandrolone has me around a total of about ~1000, but more importantly, my free t is around 22 and I don't need any AI to keep my estrogen at 30 or below, and I feel absolutely great. Mood is great, libido is strong, energy level is great, zero side effects. I'm happy happy happy. At 42 I can work out 2x a day (cardio first thing in the morning and resistance training in the late afternoon) and still keep up with the teenager, the toddler, the wife, and the dog... provided I get enough sleep!

Good information! Do you use HCG?