Does anyone use Nandrolone (Deca Durabolin) ?

[Henry]

My doc offered my nandrolone and aid it would help me build muscle. I read about it and it looks like it causes erectile dysfunction. When I asked him about it, he said that for some people, it can, but if it does, regular function comes back a few weeks after stopping.

I read something different. On some message boards, the talk about 'deca-d i c k' and how it lasts for months, even a couple of years.

He said that I can take 200MGs a week alongside 200MGs a week of testosterone cypionate.

Does anyone have any experience with nandrolone?


Nandrolone (Deca Durabolin) Studies in Humans

 

[bdad]

Deca **** usually occurs at higher doses, also when test is not run as a base.

 

[Henry]

So if a person runs equal amounts of test and nandrolone, they'll be fine?

 

[ERO]

200 mgs a week of Nandrolone is a low dose, normally used to help relieve joint pain. Guys with "deca d__k are using far, far more than that and often not using Test with it as bdad said before.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I used nandrolone for 10 years. My first book was about it.

As long as you use it with 100-200 mg of testosterone per week, you will be OK. I never had any prolactin issues on it.

200 mg of nandrolone plus 100-200 mg of testosterone once per week can do wonders. You can gain 2-3 pounds a week if you eat well and clean and do resistance exercise 4 times per week. I would add 500 IU HCG twice per week.

This is from my first book I co-authored with Michael Mooney (Built to Survive).

When used with TRT, nandrolone (like all 17-alpha methylated anabolics) has the following effects on blood work and quality of life:

1. Free T goes up
2. HDL and triglycerides go down
3. SHBG goes down
4. DHT may or may not go up
5. Hematocrit goes up
6. Blood pressure and water retention may go up in some men
7. Joint pain goes down (this effect is unique to nandrolone) Nandrolone, joint pain and tendon healing
8. Prolactin stays the same (despite what you read everywhere- Prove me wrong!)
9. Total T does not go up if you use LC/MS assay (Not ECLIA immunoassay)
10. ED: No effect but the "deca-dick" myth is out there (You should always use TRT with nandrolone to prevent ED)
11. Muscle pump improves
12. Strength improves
13. Water retention can get worse
14. Appetite may increase
15. No drug-induced liver enzyme changes. But be aware that resistance exercise can increase certain liver enzymes.

NOTE: If you get a testosterone test that uses the old immunoassay, nandrolone will be picked up as testosterone. Use the testosterone test based on liquid chromatography/ mass spectrometry.




Nandrolone Decanoate (Deca Durabolin)

Nandrolone decanoate is a “best” anabolic steroid for men because it has less potential for androgenic or estrogenic side effects than testosterone, yet one comparison study showed that it has more anabolic potential than testosterone at lower doses.


Nandrolone, like other anabolic steroids, is not however, suitable as a substitute for testosterone for the treatment of testosterone deficiency, as it does not produce the effects on libido, quality-of- life and physical hardiness that testosterone itself does. In truth only testosterone itself is appropriate for testosterone replacement therapy.

Nandrolone's decreased androgenic potential means that there is less chance that it will promote hair loss or enlargement of the prostate than testosterone. This is partly because testosterone's 5-alpha reduced metabolite, called dihydrotestosterone, is more androgenic than nandrolone's 5-alpha reduced metabolite, called dihydronandrolone. Because of its lower androgenic potential, nandrolone may also be used at low doses by women who are experiencing severe weight loss.

Nandrolone is a nor-testosterone, which means that there is no carbon at the 19 position of the molecule. This prevents the binding of the enzyme called aromatase, which converts testosterone into estrogen. While some textbooks say that this means that nandrolone should not convert to estrogen at all, nandrolone has been shown to convert to estrogen at a rate of approximately 20 percent as much as testosterone does at therapeutic doses. Therefore, nandrolone has significantly less potential to cause estrogen-related side effects such as gynecomastia (breast growth) than testosterone in men. Reduced potential for androgenic and estrogenic effects, along with its high anabolic potential makes nandrolone a very good steroid to combine with testosterone for higher-dose anabolic therapy.

Nandrolone probably converts to estrogen, not through the action of aromatase, but through the action of organic acids or alkalines in the body that act on nandrolone after it is converted to its 1-beta hydroxylated derivative. This means that estrogen inhibitors like Arimidex, which decrease the activity of aromatase, may not stop nandrolone from aromatizing to estrogen.

Frequency of Administration — Nandrolone
(Once per Week)

Pharmacokinetic studies with nandrolone decanoate also show that it is better to administer it on a weekly basis rather than biweekly or monthly, if the most consistent blood levels of the steroid are desired. While blood levels of nandrolone decanoate begin to rise in several hours, its 6-day half-life is about 20 percent longer than the half- life for testosterone enanthate or cypionate.

Note: The dosing information on the package insert for nandrolone decanoate recommends weekly administration. The dosing instructions in the package inserts for testosterone cypionate and enanthate are inadequate.

Oil-based injectable anabolic steroids are somewhat preferable to any oral steroid because of their lack of liver toxicity. The main reason that orals may be preferred is because some people have a strong aversion to injections and some doctors are reluctant to prescribe injectable drugs for self-administration.

Generic nandrolone decanoate is sold around the world as single dose vials in three different concentrations — 50 mg, 100 mg, or 200 mg per mL. The most economical product contains 200 mg per mL. Compounding pharmacies can make it (the commercial product is no longer available in pharmacies in the US)

The Pool Effect

After several injections, long-acting injectable oil-based steroids like testosterone enanthate, testosterone cypionate, and nandrolone decanoate can accumulate in the muscle tissue around the injection site in a pool. This pooling can create a longer duration of release of the steroid, which may lengthen the net lifespan of the drug in the body to some extent. Even when this is taken into account, we suggest that once-a- week administration is best to maintain the most consistent blood level of the drug.

Comparing Anabolic Effect — Nandrolone
Versus Testosterone

While there have been no controlled comparative studies of nandrolone decanoate and testosterone in HIV(+) people, studies so far suggest that at a dose of 100 mg per week, nandrolone produces more lean tissue growth than testosterone. For instance, in Dr. Julian Gold's study of wasting men, 100 mg of nandrolone every two weeks caused a lean tissue gain of 6.6 pounds in 16 weeks,34 while Coodley's study on wasting men showed that 200 mg of testosterone every two weeks produced no net gain after 12 weeks.35

Gold's study did include weight-training, though, and weight-training appears to roughly double the anabolic effect of anabolic steroids according to Dr. Bhasin's high-dose testosterone study.36

Perhaps more compelling is a comparative study of normal HIV-negative men that showed a significant weight gain with 100 mg of nandrolone decanoate per week but none with testosterone enanthate at 100 mg. In the same study, at 300 mg of nandrolone and 300 mg of testosterone, both steroids caused significant muscle gain, but there was a greater strength gain with testosterone.37 (This suggests that testosterone induces specific natural neurochemical effects that influence physical strength that may be attenuated or devoid with nandrolone.)38

There is nothing perfectly conclusive here, but these data do indicate that nandrolone probably does have more value as an anabolic agent than testosterone does at equal low replacement-like doses. This supports our proposed use of nandrolone added to replacement testosterone to increase the net anabolic effect with less potential for the androgenic or estrogenic side effects that might happen with higher than replacement dose testosterone. However, testosterone appears to have its own unique functional effects on the nervous system.

Combining Testosterone with Nandrolone to
Reduce Side Effects

We also suggest that physicians consider using a mixture of nandrolone decanoate and testosterone in equal lower doses to give some more sensitive hypogonadal men the full benefit of the androgenic properties of testosterone, but reduce the potential for its dose-related side effects. Testosterone's androgenic characteristics impart more energy, physical strength, libido, and anti-depressive effect than nandrolone, but there is more potential for hair loss, acne, irritability, and prostate growth with testosterone, especially with increasing doses.

Nandrolone appears to add relatively more anabolic activity with a reduced potential for side effects. We see physicians prescribes 50 to 100 mg of testosterone with 50 to 100 mg of nandrolone per week to men to obtain better overall lean tissue retention, energy, and quality-of-life than can be obtained by using testosterone or nandrolone alone. There is also less potential for hair loss and other side effects with this combination.

We sometimes hear men tell us how testosterone alone makes them feel less than optimal until nandrolone is added. We have seen low dose combinations of testosterone and nandrolone used by a significant number of men to produce optimal quality of life, and suggest that physicians consider this non-standard use.

All About Nandrolone

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/nandrolone-deca-durabolin-studies-in-humans.17307/ Beyond testosterone: The use of nandrolone in male health and wellness Nandrolone, joint pain and tendon healing Novel Uses for the Anabolic Steroids Nandrolone and Oxandrolone in the Management of Male...

www.excelmale.com

nandrolone

www.excelmale.com

 

[ERO]

I wish my doctor offered it

 

[Miklu]

I used nandrolone for 10 years. My first book was about it.

As long as you use it with 100-200 mg of testosterone per week, you will be OK. I never had any prolactin issues on it.

200 mg of nandrolone plus 100-200 mg of testosterone once per week can do wonders. You can gain 2-3 pounds a week if you eat well and clean and do resistance exercise 4 times per week. I would add 500 IU HCG twice per week.

This is from my first book I co-authored with Michael Mooney (Built to Survive)


Nandrolone Decanoate (Deca Durabolin)

Nandrolone decanoate is a “best” anabolic steroid for men because it has less potential for androgenic or estrogenic side effects than testosterone, yet one comparison study showed that it has more anabolic potential than testosterone at lower doses.


Nandrolone, like other anabolic steroids, is not however, suitable as a substitute for testosterone for the treatment of testosterone deficiency, as it does not produce the effects on libido, quality-of- life and physical hardiness that testosterone itself does. In truth only testosterone itself is appropriate for testosterone replacement therapy.

Nandrolone's decreased androgenic potential means that there is less chance that it will promote hair loss or enlargement of the prostate than testosterone. This is partly because testosterone's 5-alpha reduced metabolite, called dihydrotestosterone, is more androgenic than nandrolone's 5-alpha reduced metabolite, called dihydronandrolone. Because of its lower androgenic potential, nandrolone may also be used at low doses by women who are experiencing severe weight loss.

Nandrolone is a nor-testosterone, which means that there is no carbon at the 19 position of the molecule. This prevents the binding of the enzyme called aromatase, which converts testosterone into estrogen. While some textbooks say that this means that nandrolone should not convert to estrogen at all, nandrolone has been shown to convert to estrogen at a rate of approximately 20 percent as much as testosterone does at therapeutic doses. Therefore, nandrolone has significantly less potential to cause estrogen-related side effects such as gynecomastia (breast growth) than testosterone in men. Reduced potential for androgenic and estrogenic effects, along with its high anabolic potential makes nandrolone a very good steroid to combine with testosterone for higher-dose anabolic therapy.

Nandrolone probably converts to estrogen, not through the action of aromatase, but through the action of organic acids or alkalines in the body that act on nandrolone after it is converted to its 1-beta hydroxylated derivative. This means that estrogen inhibitors like Arimidex, which decrease the activity of aromatase, may not stop nandrolone from aromatizing to estrogen.

Frequency of Administration — Nandrolone
(Once per Week)

Pharmacokinetic studies with nandrolone decanoate also show that it is better to administer it on a weekly basis rather than biweekly or monthly, if the most consistent blood levels of the steroid are desired. While blood levels of nandrolone decanoate begin to rise in several hours, its 6-day half-life is about 20 percent longer than the half- life for testosterone enanthate or cypionate.

Note: The dosing information on the package insert for nandrolone decanoate recommends weekly administration. The dosing instructions in the package inserts for testosterone cypionate and enanthate are inadequate.

Oil-based injectable anabolic steroids are somewhat preferable to any oral steroid because of their lack of liver toxicity. The main reason that orals may be preferred is because some people have a strong aversion to injections and some doctors are reluctant to prescribe injectable drugs for self-administration.

Generic nandrolone decanoate is sold around the world as single dose vials in three different concentrations — 50 mg, 100 mg, or 200 mg per mL. The most economical product contains 200 mg per mL. Compounding pharmacies can make it (the commercial product is no longer available in pharmacies in the US)

The Pool Effect

After several injections, long-acting injectable oil-based steroids like testosterone enanthate, testosterone cypionate, and nandrolone decanoate can accumulate in the muscle tissue around the injection site in a pool. This pooling can create a longer duration of release of the steroid, which may lengthen the net lifespan of the drug in the body to some extent. Even when this is taken into account, we suggest that once-a- week administration is best to maintain the most consistent blood level of the drug.

Comparing Anabolic Effect — Nandrolone
Versus Testosterone

While there have been no controlled comparative studies of nandrolone decanoate and testosterone in HIV(+) people, studies so far suggest that at a dose of 100 mg per week, nandrolone produces more lean tissue growth than testosterone. For instance, in Dr. Julian Gold's study of wasting men, 100 mg of nandrolone every two weeks caused a lean tissue gain of 6.6 pounds in 16 weeks,34 while Coodley's study on wasting men showed that 200 mg of testosterone every two weeks produced no net gain after 12 weeks.35

Gold's study did include weight-training, though, and weight-training appears to roughly double the anabolic effect of anabolic steroids according to Dr. Bhasin's high-dose testosterone study.36

Perhaps more compelling is a comparative study of normal HIV-negative men that showed a significant weight gain with 100 mg of nandrolone decanoate per week but none with testosterone enanthate at 100 mg. In the same study, at 300 mg of nandrolone and 300 mg of testosterone, both steroids caused significant muscle gain, but there was a greater strength gain with testosterone.37 (This suggests that testosterone induces specific natural neurochemical effects that influence physical strength that may be attenuated or devoid with nandrolone.)38

There is nothing perfectly conclusive here, but these data do indicate that nandrolone probably does have more value as an anabolic agent than testosterone does at equal low replacement-like doses. This supports our proposed use of nandrolone added to replacement testosterone to increase the net anabolic effect with less potential for the androgenic or estrogenic side effects that might happen with higher than replacement dose testosterone. However, testosterone appears to have its own unique functional effects on the nervous system.

Combining Testosterone with Nandrolone to
Reduce Side Effects

We also suggest that physicians consider using a mixture of nandrolone decanoate and testosterone in equal lower doses to give some more sensitive hypogonadal men the full benefit of the androgenic properties of testosterone, but reduce the potential for its dose-related side effects. Testosterone's androgenic characteristics impart more energy, physical strength, libido, and anti-depressive effect than nandrolone, but there is more potential for hair loss, acne, irritability, and prostate growth with testosterone, especially with increasing doses.

Nandrolone appears to add relatively more anabolic activity with a reduced potential for side effects. We see physicians prescribes 50 to 100 mg of testosterone with 50 to 100 mg of nandrolone per week to men to obtain better overall lean tissue retention, energy, and quality-of-life than can be obtained by using testosterone or nandrolone alone. There is also less potential for hair loss and other side effects with this combination.

We sometimes hear men tell us how testosterone alone makes them feel less than optimal until nandrolone is added. We have seen low dose combinations of testosterone and nandrolone used by a significant number of men to produce optimal quality of life, and suggest that physicians consider this non-standard use.

what kind of dosages did you use? you probably weren't almost constantly on deca that whole 10 years right?

i've been almost 9 months on trt sustanon 125mg week and despite weight training and surplus calories my weight hasn't gone up more than couple pounds and i'm not more lean than before trt so it's not about that. my doctor suggested that we should maybe try adding deca to my trt regimen for a while and see if i can gain some lean muscle mass because i'm currently sitting at 133-135 and i'm 5'10. i have back problems and very weak feeling all the time so i believe gaining few pounds of quality mass would definitely help.

 

[craig weston]

Nelson, Did you stay on Nandralone continously for a decade ?

 

[craig weston]

Nelson, How long could i run the combo, will it effect my libido and what about side effects ?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Craig

Yes, for a decade at 100mg nandrolone plus 200 mg test per week. You should test your prolactin after 3-4 weeks just to make sure it is not high.
Libido was good as long as I used testosterone with it. "Deca ****" can happen in those who do not use T and/or have high prolactin.

 

[craig weston]

Thanks Nelson. Could you please send me good link about Prolactin

 

[Miklu]

Craig

Yes, for a decade at 100mg nandrolone plus 200 mg test per week. You should test your prolactin after 3-4 weeks just to make sure it is not high.
Libido was good as long as I used testosterone with it. "Deca ****" can happen in those who do not use T and/or have high prolactin.

were you able to preserve almost all muscle mass on 100mg deca and 200mg test you gained when you were running deca and testosterone on higher dosages?

my doctor prescribed me 200mg deca per week for next 3 months to see if it would help me to gain weight and relieve my symptoms.

 

[craig weston]

Nelson, why did ya stop taking Deca after a decade and was there side effects after a decade of use? Plus would i have to get bloodwork on 50-100mg Deca and 100mg T per week?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I stopped it because I started seeing data on left ventricular hypertrophy of the heart. Also, my blood pressure and water retention were getting to be a problem. I also found out that using TRT+HCG , exercise and a good diet kept me from losing the muscle I gained.

 

[organix419]

Nelson,

Were you personally seeing L ventricular hypertrophy or was this from data in the literature (mouse models)?

Many thanks...

 

[craig weston]

Nelson,

Were you personally seeing L ventricular hypertrophy or was this from data in the literature (mouse models)?

Many thanks...

Nelson, When you decided to come off Deca how much t and HCG did you use to keep the muscle ?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Here is my program

 

[midlifealpha]

Just out of curiosity does Defy work with you on Deca or are we on our own on that if we decide to try that.

Overall I'm convinced it's better than just blasting 500mg. I would assume that most of us on a 90-day checkup cycle would need to blast for just 8 weeks anyway because we'd want the other 4 weeks to potentially get hematocrit and RBC counts in check.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Deca (nandrolone decanoate) is only available by prescription for people with wasting diseases.

 

[Self Made]

Nelson,

From your experience, are doctor's often willing to include Deca (or similar substances) to a TRT protocol? Only recently did I begin with a TRT clinic and as of now I'm using Test Cyp and HCG; however, I've had a very, very rough few years and I want to explore all options with regards to returning to my optimal wellbeing. I've had five surgeries, including a knee reconstruction and two cervical spinal fusions (facing a third due to a failed fusion), and therefore, I want any compound that sill safely help me alleviate pain and get me back in the gym and active. I would appreciate your input.

To complement the discussion, I've heard some things mentioned like Provision, something called Masteron, and others. If I understand correctly, they're generally illegal without a prescription. Do TRT providers write prescriptions for the aforementioned, and if not, are they thought of as beneficial. I don't want to do serious steroids, but make sure I'm aware of every option, specifically their benefits. Ex: Would it be helpful to include a Provision or Masteron, or something else, to my treatment? And, if so, would that mess up my current TRT protocol? Again, I'm basing this assumption that some, or all, of those are provided by a physician, not from an illegal source.

Thanks for any input!

M