Does anyone do well on weekly injections?

[DDD]

I'm curious to know if there is anyone on this forum who does weekly injections and it works well for them. I know that most recommend twice weekly or more.

I'm asking because I started TRT two years ago with once weekly injections and did OK in the beginning. Then had E2 issues. Recently I switched to twice weekly injections but still having E2 issues which affects libido.

I almost wondering if I should go back to once weekly and use anaostrozole. Is it possible that once weekly works good for some guys?

 

[CoastWatcher]

Weekly injections can work for some men, though more and more are finding success with multiple injections over the course of the week. What is your current protocol? How much testosterone are you injecting and how often? Do you have labwork you can share? Total and free testosterualong with (sensitive) estradiol levels?

 

[DDD]

At the moment, my current protocol is 60 mgs twice weekly on Mon and Thur, with no AI (I was using anasotrozole). I think I may have to start with anastrozole again because erections aren't as strong. I've only been on this protocol a short time so I'm trying to be patient and wait instead of jumping impulsively. I was doing .25 mg MWF with a dissolvable tablet from a compounding pharmacy.

I'm attaching a chart of my labs from the past two years. It just shows TT, FT, and E2 (but most are standard test). If you were asking for a recent lab which shows more, like, SHBG, CVC, blood count, etc, I can do that too.

 

[CoastWatcher]

At the moment, my current protocol is 60 mgs twice weekly on Mon and Thur, with no AI (I was using anasotrozole). I think I may have to start with anastrozole again because erections aren't as strong. I've only been on this protocol a short time so I'm trying to be patient and wait instead of jumping impulsively. I was doing .25 mg MWF with a dissolvable tablet from a compounding pharmacy.

I'm attaching a chart of my labs from the past two years. It just shows TT, FT, and E2 (but most are standard test). If you were asking for a recent lab which shows more, like, SHBG, CVC, blood count, etc, I can do that too.

The estradiol sensitive test is the only assay that will provide you with accurate information. The standard test over-reports estradiol in men. Relying on the standard test results here, it is by no means a given that your E2 is running high. Anastrozole in the absence of confirmed high E2 can lead to problems in itself. Ask your doctor for the sensitive test, or order them yourself through Discountedlabs.com (if your doctor doesn't rely on the sensitive test you have a doctor who doesn't understand TRT). And future lab results should provide the ranges that lab cites. It is important to post those.

 

[DDD]

The ranges for the standard test on these labs were 7-42. The range of TT was 300-830. The range for Free T was 30-150.

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

At the moment, my current protocol is 60 mgs twice weekly on Mon and Thur, with no AI (I was using anasotrozole). I think I may have to start with anastrozole again because erections aren't as strong. I've only been on this protocol a short time so I'm trying to be patient and wait instead of jumping impulsively. I was doing .25 mg MWF with a dissolvable tablet from a compounding pharmacy.

I'm attaching a chart of my labs from the past two years. It just shows TT, FT, and E2 (but most are standard test). If you were asking for a recent lab which shows more, like, SHBG, CVC, blood count, etc, I can do that too.

Like Coast Watcher said, you really need to get the sensitive E2 test from now on, so that you can accurately titrate your Anastrozole dosage (if you even need it). Remember that Anastrozole is a really powerful drug, and you can easily tank your E2 (which will cause a slew of other problems) by taking too much. Your previous dosage of .25mg MWF sounds pretty heavy, but without current sensitive E2 lab work, we're driving in the dark here.

 

[DDD]

OK. I should be getting lab results Monday or Tuesday this week. However, those results will be from when I was doing 40 mgs E3D. I since went back to 60 mgs Mon and Thur. But I know on these labs I specifically requested the sensitive assay and will do so from now on. I know that any of the libido issues are hormonal because I have no other health problems. I am 43 and 6'1, about 185 pounds. Workout regularly.

You guys seem confident that Defy can help get me back on track. I guess I'm just a little nervous about not having a "visible" place to go to locally. But I've communicated with them via email and thus far they have been very professional and accomodating.

Is really possible that I'm having issues because I've changed doses so much too quickly?

 

[DDD]

Jackie, is .25mg 3x a week really pretty heavy? I thought I was being conservative. I can't believe there was a time I did 1mg twice a week. This was before I learned about anastrozole.

I can get anastrozole compounded to any dosage by my compounding pharmacy. What do most guys use? I know it depends on what your labs are. I had read online somewhere about a TRT clinic in Tennessee giving guys .1mg every day if their E2 was high.

So if I understand correctly from Coastwatcher and other posts, it is the T to E ratio which is most important. The TT to E ratio should be 14-20 using the sensitive E2 test. Is that correct? Just curious to know where the 14-20 range comes from?

When I first TRT I didn't keep a log of how I'm feeling, so I've had to guess about some things from the past. Now I've learned to keep better records to I know exactly how I felt on certain regimens.

 

[DDD]

Let me ask some advice on another thing. If 150 mgs once weekly (.75cc) is where I felt good on TRT 1 1/2 years ago, should I go back there? I don't recall having too many issues on that dose and when I did have any erection issues I took twice weekly doses of anastrozole.

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

Is really possible that I'm having issues because I've changed doses so much too quickly?

The problem is that you're not letting your new protocol levels stabilize long enough before performing the lab work, THEN titrating your dosages accordingly. Most guys here wait at least 4 to 6 weeks before getting new lab work, then adjust.

Patience Grasshopper!

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

Jackie, is .25mg 3x a week really pretty heavy? I thought I was being conservative. I can't believe there was a time I did 1mg twice a week. This was before I learned about anastrozole.

I can't believe you were doing 1mg BIW either. Did you crash your E2 from taking that dose?

The .25mg TIW sounds like a lot of AI to me. Maybe some of the other guys here can chime in. Not everyone's body reacts exactly the same to an identical Anastrozole dosage.

So if I understand correctly from Coastwatcher and other posts, it is the T to E ratio which is most important. The TT to E ratio should be 14-20 using the sensitive E2 test. Is that correct? Just curious to know where the 14-20 range comes from?

I can't remember if the TE ratio numbers came from Dr. Crisler's book, or some other source.

When I first TRT I didn't keep a log of how I'm feeling, so I've had to guess about some things from the past. Now I've learned to keep better records to I know exactly how I felt on certain regimens.

That's an excellent idea...a TRT logbook.

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

Let me ask some advice on another thing. If 150 mgs once weekly (.75cc) is where I felt good on TRT 1 1/2 years ago, should I go back there? I don't recall having too many issues on that dose and when I did have any erection issues I took twice weekly doses of anastrozole.

I think that most folks here pin their Test twice a week. This will give you nice stable levels (no big peaks or valleys), and minimize the chance that you'll have to use an AI. Most guys here on this protocol don't take any AI, or if they do, it is a tiny dose.

 

[DDD]

Jackie, to answer your question, yes, I crashed my E2. The problem was the TRT doc said to take 1 mg pill twice a week. It had been so long since I used anastrozole the first time a few months before, that I forgot what my dose was the first time I used it. I had used it at .5mg twice a week when I was taking 150-200 mgs on a once weekly injection. That actually worked OK. But I only used it temporarily. I didn't want to take an AI long term.

So a few months later when my E2 was high again, I took the 1mg pill twice a week. Didn't feel right. Then cut it to .5 mg twice a week. My libido was down. Erection were weak as well as arousal. I knew something wasn't right. Turned out my E2 was 10 and 5 on two blood tests, both using the standard test. That was this summer.

I'll never do that again. That's when I started get .25mg dissolvable tablets from a compounding pharmacy.

So then I'll tried to get my E2 back up by increasing my T and the E2 jumped to 69 (highest its ever been) which gave me the same symptoms as when I had low E2.

So it's been since the summer that I've been trying to stabilize my levels and get back on a regular protocol with positive libido. The problem is, I'm not being very patient. (-:

Once your libido is low on a certain regimen or on too E2, how long does it usually take on a new regimen for libido to increase and be consistent again?

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

The problem is, I'm not being very patient. (-:

You're just hurting yourself, and making it very difficult to get dialed in.

Once your libido is low on a certain regimen or on too E2, how long does it usually take on a new regimen for libido to increase and be consistent again?

I haven't had this problem, but I've read about it numerous times here, and on other forums.

This is me speculating...I think it would take much longer to recover from a crashed E2, than a high E2 treated with Anastrozole. I've read that it took multiple weeks for some guys to recover from the crash. I'm guessing that a high E2 could be reigned in pretty quick with a powerful AI like Anastrozole. Sorry I couldn't give you a more definitive answer.

 

[MalibuSurfer]

Definitely get on Anastrozole. It'll make a big difference.

 

[CoastWatcher]

You're just hurting yourself, and making it very difficult to get dialed in.



I haven't had this problem, but I've read about it numerous times here, and on other forums.

This is me speculating...I think it would take much longer to recover from a crashed E2, than a high E2 treated with Anastrozole. I've read that it took multiple weeks for some guys to recover from the crash. I'm guessing that a high E2 could be reigned in pretty quick with a powerful AI like Anastrozole. Sorry I couldn't give you a more definitive answer.

In the same spirit that Jackie posted, I offer these thoughts in a spirit of support. You have sabotaged your TRT protocol time after time. It began when, through no fault of your own, you engaged the services of a doctor/clinic without the knowledge to help you manage your health. From your posts, it seems clear that you were not well-served in terms of what to expect on TRT. HCG was dismissed as a simple method of maintaining testicle size, and you were handed Anastrozole with no understanding of how potent a medication it really is. Was attention paid to your thyroid levels when therapy began? What were your SHBG levels, a key factor in determining how often one should inject? Was your cortisol level evaluated? Did your doctor discuss the fact that many men with successful TRT protocols take Cialis,or one of its cousins, since -on its own - testosterone may not be enough to overcome all erectile issues?

You are casting about, asking for advice on disparate topics, wondering if you should do A, B, X, or Z. None of us are doctors and we can't diagnose you. We have offered our personal thoughts, based on our own experience and reading. We want to help you and see you regain your health, but you set out on the hormone replacement highway with a doctor who doesn't fully grasp the ins and outs of androgen therapy; you have compounded that mishap by refusing to take the time required for your body to adjust to the variables of treatment. You are working against yourself and if you continue in this fashion you will remain frustrated.

 

[BBaller]

I agree with a Coastwatcher. You seem to be floating about unmoored in a search for answers and some magic bullet.

More patience and a quality professional who can diagnose and treat you will go much further than any more grasping and pining for kernels.

Good luck DDD.

 

[ERO]

Also remember to only change one variable at a time and then wait 4-6 weeks and test. (And use the ultra sensitive E2 test). if you change more than one variable you won't know which one made a difference and you are back to driving in the dark without headlights again.

 

[Re-Ride]

... you engaged the services of a doctor/clinic without the knowledge to help you manage your health... you were not well-served... HCG was dismissed... were handed Anastrozole with no understanding of how potent a medication it really is.... (No) attention paid to your thyroid, SHBG, or cortisol levels. Did your doctor discuss...

You are casting about... with a doctor who doesn't fully grasp the ins and outs of androgen therapy

The time for the government and medical associations to do more than simply hand out licenses to anyone willy nilly is long past. Meanwhile, until reform arrives, if ever, the consumer should press their legislators for access to hormone distribution and related supplies on demand through their local ACE or True Value hardware retailer. U.S.P.S workers are required to register voters. Likewise Law enforcement should be required to share their juice whenever a citizen is detained for tail light, dog license violations or excising their first amendment rights.

I agree with a Coastwatcher. You seem to be floating about unmoored in a search for answers and some magic bullet.

Since 1963 "magic bullets' are what's for dinner. Libertarian Laze Fair means you sink or swim on your own. We just need access to the paddles and flotation devices.

I reside in norcal, formally considered a bastion of progressive attitude and consumer rights. More than two decades passed for me on TRT essentially navigating blind while MD's, insurance companies and bureaucrats profited. Nothing has changed. Commercial drivers can be examined, over-regulated but apparently not health care, bankers or anyone with a hand in your pocket.

Go ahead and fault op. He pro'ly was playing hooky at school the day they covered New Deal survival.

 

[DDD]

Thank you guys for sharing, and Jackie, Coastwatcher, Bballer, and EROs, etc. I get the message and the spirit in which it is shared is accepted. I don't mind plain talk. I should not have kept changing so frequently. I should have stayed on the regimen I was on a year ago. Thanks for pushing me on this.

You are right in that everything was not explained to me in the beginning. I knew nothing of HCG and not a lot about anastrozole. They do measure my CVC counts, PSA, and SHBG (its always 17-23) I had to ask them to measure cortisol, or DHEA, or DHT. My urologist did a thyroid and hepatatic panel.

Per your advice, here's what I am thinking. I should stay on my current regimen of .3cc (55-60 mgs) twice a week (Mon and Thur), with no AI, for 4 weeks, and then get blood work. Then I should call Defy and set up a consultation. I figured I'd wait until I've been on the current regimen for 4 weeks before calling Defy, because I assume they would want to see blood work from a regimen that I've at least been on for 4 weeks. Does that make sense?

I will get some blood work back tomorrow, but I don't know that it will be helpful because I got it done during the time when I was changing my dosages frequently. I will share it though.