Do I still need protein if I'm trying to tone vs bulk?

[Whatzup]

Guys I've been having some sciatic back pain and lifting at times aggravates it even using a belt. Having said that will I benefit any lifting lighter and more reps as far as being able to build muscle?
I also take whey protein. Do I still use whey to help or do I no longer need it if my goal now is to tone vs bulk?

 

[Vince]

I would say you still want protein, to lose weight I would eliminate the carbs.

 

[Whatzup]

I would say you still want protein, to lose weight I would eliminate the carbs.

Do I need to eliminate all simple carbs? I eat simple carbs here and there but not a lot. Example one yogurt and one pancake. The rest meats and nuts etc.

 

[Whatzup]

I'm a low carb guy, I eat eggs, real cheese,meat, healthy nuts and lots of good non-starchy vegetables. It keeps me nice and lean.
Thanks, I'm finally making gains again.
All calories need to be accounted for including the ones in nuts correct? Sometimes I don't eat awhole bunch because a package can have 500 calories in one sitting.

 

[Vince]

I don't count calories, protein, fats or carbs. I just eat my diet and try not to eat too many nuts. When I go overboard on at nuts I do gain weight.

 

[Whatzup]

I don't count calories, protein, fats or carbs. I just eat my diet and try not to eat too many nuts. When I go overboard on at nuts I do gain weight.

You think I can make gains lifting lighter with more reps. More to tone and build muscle not to be huge.

 

[Vince]

Yes definitely, Nelson is big on using reps and lower weight. He looks awesome!

 

[Whatzup]

Yes definitely, Nelson is big on using reps and lower weight. He looks awesome!

Thanks for the advise. Making gains can be frustrating at times. Yes Nelson looks awesome. Glad I found this site too.

 

[madman]

You think I can make gains lifting lighter with more reps. More to tone and build muscle not to be huge.

Muscle bulk has more to do with ones genetics and of course diet and last but not least HEALTHY testosterone levels!

In basic terms muscle fibers (actin/myosin) are composed of fast (strength type fibers) and slow twitch (endurance type fibers) and everyone has a mixture of both but some naturally posess more of one than the other due to genetics.

Men with a higher percentage of the fast twitch fibers tend to build size easier as the fast twitch fibers are more prone to growth than the slow twitch.

Training with heavier weights/lower reps closer to 1 RM stimulates the growth of the fast twitch fibers as oppose to training with lighter weights/higher reps which stimulates growth of the slow twitch fibers.

Whether one chooses to train with heavier weights/lower reps or lighter weights/higher reps they will still be breaking down/stimulating muscle proteins and as long a diet is in check - meeting the minimum requirements for protein along with a slight calorie surplus if trying to gain muscle or a slight calorie deficit when trying to loose excess body fat while retaining muscle.

Sure if one naturally possess more fast twitch fibers than training with heavier weights/lower reps would be more beneficial in stimulating the growth of the fast twitch fibers but you will find that many people implement a mixture of heavier weight/lower rep and lighter weight/higher rep training in their protocols to stimulate overall muscle growth.

I would say in a calorie deficit one will have a harder time adding muscle as the metabolic cost of building new muscle proteins requires more energy than maintaining it.

Regarding diet depending on one genetics/insulin sensitivity whether one follows a low carb/moderate protein/higher fat diet or a moderate-high carb/moderate protein/lower fat diet both ways of eating will contribute to muscular gains/fat loss.

In the end though aside from ones genetics it really comes down to calorie surplus when looking to add muscle bulk and calorie deficit when trying to lose fat/maintain muscle.

I also feel that low carb diets are better for getting the lean/muscular look and moderate-high carb diets are better for increasing muscular size/bulk as eating more complex carbohydrates will allow ones to train longer/harder,recover better,increase strength and muscle size easier and allow the muscles to look bigger/fuller (due to increased glycogen storage in the muscle cell) which increases intra-cellular water.

If ones goal was to gain the most muscle/strength than higher carb diets would win every time.

Do not take this the wrong way as low carb diets are great for many especially if one naturally tends to put on fat easily/has hard time loosing fat and has poor insulin sensitivity due to genetics and of course there are many health benefits if ones body type suites lower carb diets.

I have never seen some one build a significant amount of muscle bulk on a low carb diet even in a calorie surplus. Most men following low carb that train with weights and have their diet/training in check look lean/fit and muscular but definitely not big and muscular.

Vince is a big proponent of following a low carb lifestyle and his physique looks amazing!

 

[Whatzup]

Muscle bulk has more to do with ones genetics and of course diet and last but not least HEALTHY testosterone levels!

In basic terms muscle fibers (actin/myosin) are composed of fast (strength type fibers) and slow twitch (endurance type fibers) and everyone has a mixture of both but some naturally posess more of one than the other due to genetics.

Men with a higher percentage of the fast twitch fibers tend to build size easier as the fast twitch fibers are more prone to growth than the slow twitch.

Training with heavier weights/lower reps closer to 1 RM stimulates the growth of the fast twitch fibers as oppose to training with lighter weights/higher reps which stimulates growth of the slow twitch fibers.

Whether one chooses to train with heavier weights/lower reps or lighter weights/higher reps they will still be breaking down/stimulating muscle proteins and as long a diet is in check - meeting the minimum requirements for protein along with a slight calorie surplus if trying to gain muscle or a slight calorie deficit when trying to loose excess body fat while retaining muscle.

Sure if one naturally possess more fast twitch fibers than training with heavier weights/lower reps would be more beneficial in stimulating the growth of the fast twitch fibers but you will find that many people implement a mixture of heavier weight/lower rep and lighter weight/higher rep training in their protocols to stimulate overall muscle growth.

I would say in a calorie deficit one will have a harder time adding muscle as the metabolic cost of building new muscle proteins requires more energy than maintaining it.

Regarding diet depending on one genetics/insulin sensitivity whether one follows a low carb/moderate protein/higher fat diet or a moderate-high carb/moderate protein/lower fat diet both ways of eating will contribute to muscular gains/fat loss.

In the end though aside from ones genetics it really comes down to calorie surplus when looking to add muscle bulk and calorie deficit when trying to lose fat/maintain muscle.

I also feel that low carb diets are better for getting the lean/muscular look and moderate-high carb diets are better for increasing muscular size/bulk as eating more complex carbohydrates will allow ones to train longer/harder,recover better,increase strength and muscle size easier and allow the muscles to look bigger/fuller (due to increased glycogen storage in the muscle cell) which increases intra-cellular water.

If ones goal was to gain the most muscle/strength than higher carb diets would win every time.

Do not take this the wrong way as low carb diets are great for many especially if one naturally tends to put on fat easily/has hard time loosing fat and has poor insulin sensitivity due to genetics and of course there are many health benefits if ones body type suites lower carb diets.

I have never seen some one build a significant amount of muscle bulk on a low carb diet even in a calorie surplus. Most men following low carb that train with weights and have their diet/training in check look lean/fit and muscular but definitely not big and muscular.

Vince is a big proponent of following a low carb lifestyle and his physique looks amazing!

Thank you Madman! This is indeed some excellent solid information you shared here and I appreciate it.
I will have no choice for now to lift lighter since I have sciatic back pain from time to time.
I try to stay between 1500 and 1800 calories a day to lose fat and hopefully build some muscle in the process. I take a good amount of protein from meats and Whey power from Optimum Nutrition. I am 5ft 3 or so and that is why I try to stay between the calorie surplus I mentioned.

 

[T Dawg]

Excellent info Madman! Whatzup, I don't think lifting lighter weights should be easier. You may already be doing this but when I drop the weight I lift, I also increase the intensity or the "mind muscle" connection. Focus hard on the muscle you're working and the light weight should give you excellent results. I can do a set with "meduim weight", concentrate on muscle contraction and get a crazy muscle pump that will tear muscle and cause it to rebuild stronger than if I do a set with "heavy weight" and focus more on moving the weight than contracting that specific muscle. Google "mind muscle connection" there are some excellent videos on youtube.

 

[Whatzup]

Excellent info Madman! Whatzup, I don't think lifting lighter weights should be easier. You may already be doing this but when I drop the weight I lift, I also increase the intensity or the "mind muscle" connection. Focus hard on the muscle you're working and the light weight should give you excellent results. I can do a set with "meduim weight", concentrate on muscle contraction and get a crazy muscle pump that will tear muscle and cause it to rebuild stronger than if I do a set with "heavy weight" and focus more on moving the weight than contracting that specific muscle. Google "mind muscle connection" there are some excellent videos on youtube.

Thank you and yes I will look it up. I feel my arms swell after I do many reps. I guess I am doing it right if I feel the pump like you mentioned yes?

 

[Whatzup]

Are your muscles suppose to feel sore the next day or so after working them out? Sometimes I feel sore other times I do not. I want to make sure I am not wasting my time thinking I am building muscle when I am not sore.

 

[Vince]

Are your muscles suppose to feel sore the next day or so after working them out? Sometimes I feel sore other times I do not. I want to make sure I am not wasting my time thinking I am building muscle when I am not sore.

Yes most people muscles do feel sore after working out, I usually do not get sore anymore. Only if I miss a schedule workout, when I go on vacation and I don't work out for a while I usually start back up slowly to avoid being overly sore.

 

[Whatzup]

Yes most people muscles do feel sore after working out, I usually do not get sore anymore. Only if I miss a schedule workout, when I go on vacation and I don't work out for a while I usually start back up slowly to avoid being overly sore.

Like yesterday I worked on my arms and today I feel sore. I can go back in 4 days and work on arms again and I don't feel sore. Does that mean I need to up the reps/weighs to make sure there is always soreness?

 

[Vince]

Like yesterday I worked on my arms and today I feel sore. I can go back in 4 days and work on arms again and I don't feel sore. Does that mean I need to up the reps/weighs to make sure there is always soreness?

I don't think it's necessary to max out every workout. There are a few exercises like to max out on every time I do them, like overhead presses and pull ups.

 

[Whatzup]

I don't think it's necessary to max out every workout. There are a few exercises like to max out on every time I do them, like overhead presses and pull ups.

Now with the pulls ups I am still trying to conquer that. I can lift myself halfway up but for maybe 2 reps. I am doing reverse curls with the barbell to strengthen my arms to later be able to lift my own weight.
I agree too on not having to max out. I am 44 and need to avoid injury and I think at my age I need more recovery time too.