Depressed: My Wife Does Not Accept if I Use Trimix or PT-141

[DorianGray]

The human mind can possess certain moral and spiritual aspects which have meaning to some. For others, such things aren't important so decisions are made differently. Many facets to the advice given here indeed.

I see tropicaldaze1950 struggle but it's apparent he is a survivor above all else. 35 medications-that is incredible! Not sure what your age is @tropicaldaze1950, but to what do you attribute your ability to have managed have gone past meds and therapy all this time? (Sorry, if this is too personal, please ignore.)

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

She sounds like a cluster B personality case. And yes your right its like the frog in boiling water. Start em off luke warm and slowly increse the temperature until he is dead in side and out. Much like the Cluster B person is. Wish you the best... it sounds like it is time to do for you what is best for you.

I agree. Our therapist wouldn't commit to any diagnosis of my wife but he told me, after a session just with her, that something is 'wrong' with her. I can't change our history or go back in time. Sometimes we pay a high price for our mistakes.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

The human mind can possess certain moral and spiritual aspects which have meaning to some. For others, such things aren't important so decisions are made differently. Many facets to the advice given here indeed.

I see tropicaldaze1950 struggle but it's apparent he is a survivor above all else. 35 medications-that is incredible! Not sure what your age is @tropicaldaze1950, but to what do you attribute your ability to have managed have gone past meds and therapy all this time? (Sorry, if this is too personal, please ignore.)

Age is 72. I attribute my survival to my father. He experienced trauma as a child and had mental health issues from combat in WW 2. His father had depression, drank to ease his pain and killed himself in 1953. My father told me, 'When you stop trying you start dying'. I'm not religious. Spiritual? Maybe, in my own fashion.

I think I've survived because my desire to live has been greater than my desire to die, though not to say that I never think about it when I feel overwhelmed. My demise will happen in its own time. Meanwhile, I'm here; literally messed up from the day I was born. Not an opinion; a fact. Would have died shortly after birth if my father, unemployed, hadn't found a surgeon to operate on me. I've stumbled through my life, never lived up to whatever potentials I possessed, became wiser and smarter as I got older. Like many, I wish I had a do over but once the wheel is in motion it can't be stopped. I aspire to something written by Robert Louis Stevenson.

"Quiet minds cannot be perplexed or frightened but go on in fortune or misfortune at their own private pace, like a clock during a thunderstorm."

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

I agree. Our therapist wouldn't commit to any diagnosis of my wife but he told me, after a session just with her, that something is 'wrong' with her. I can't change our history or go back in time. Sometimes we pay a high price for our mistakes.

for sure I have been abused in retaliation, punishment, accusations. I'm going to learn from it and gtfo and onto healing asap. Because healing takes time

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

for sure I have been abused in retaliation, punishment, accusations. I'm going to learn from it and gtfo and onto healing asap. Because healing takes time

Good for you. Yes; healing does a take a long time; maybe a lifetime, since we have to never forget the lessons we've learned. A relationship can be wonderful and positive or it can be like endlessly navigating a storm, leaving you exhausted, depressed and empty. "Self is the only prison that can ever bind the soul." Henry Van Dyke.

 

[DorianGray]

Thanks for sharing that insight @tropicaldaze1950. Trying to understand BPD because our son's issues has been like looking through a stain glass window, many facets and perceptions but difficult for one not experiencing in his own mind to perceive. I see we are the same age and probably you feel too that the lessons in life we've learned become like fuel to keep us moving forward.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

Thanks for sharing that insight @tropicaldaze1950. Trying to understand BPD because our son's issues has been like looking through a stain glass window, many facets and perceptions but difficult for one not experiencing in his own mind to perceive. I see we are the same age and probably you feel too that the lessons in life we've learned become like fuel to keep us moving forward.

I'm sorry that your son is manifesting symptoms that might be BPD. I shouldn't presume but has he gone to a psychiatrist or clinical psychologist, either with a specialty in bipolar or mood disorders? It wasn't clear when I first started mood cycling. My father had died after a short illness and the bottom fell out of my life. I consulted a psychiatrist at the University of Miami whom I'd gone to in the late 70's.(My father died 12/89). His opinion was that the mood alterations were from the shock of my father's death and would eventually subside. Wrong. Yes,unfortunately, a good doctor can get it wrong. And that was the beginning of my first nose dive, which landed me in-patient, 1/91.

12 good years followed my discharge seven months later, which included meeting my now wife(well, not good, LOL). In 2004, I began to experience sleep problems and moderate mood swings. By the end of that year, I was already going into another tail spin. Severe manic episodes and deep frightening depressive episodes. For 11 years my life was horrible, then the manias subsided, replaced by mixed stated(mania, depression, irritability, anxiety). I suspect that areas of my brain were fried by the years of intense manias.

I say to myself that if I haven't learned anything about life and myself in the last 50 years, I'm a hopeless case. But I have learned hard and painful lessons, yet I wonder if I'll heed some of those lessons when my wife is no longer part of my life. I know enough about me to have that trepidation.

 

[Jungle Cruiser]

I rarely post, although I read this forum regularly. Intimacy in marriage is very important. It usually means different things for the different genders; perhaps not always, but that is very common. For one spouse to deny the other spouse sexual intimacy without good cause (medical condition, sexually transmitted disease, etc) is, at best, selfish. At worst, it can mean many other things - none of them being good for the marriage. I am not a passive aggressive person, but can you just imagine if you had responded to her "no sex" missive with "OK, if you insist, but that means I will no longer take you out to eat, take you to the movies, buy you things that you want, and I will only mow my half of the lawn, although I will go out to eat by myself, to the movies by myself and buy myself whatever I want." People feel rejected in different ways. Categorically, sexual rejection to a man is normally internalized as rejection of him as a person. I am sorry for that. My (thankfully) ex-wife was sexually controlling and, candidly - a sexual albatross. I divorced her after dealing with her for 27 years. I later remarried, but just being away from her was a relief, albeit at a high financial price. I would not wish being married to a narcissist on anyone, even on someone who was a lousy person. It was a hellish existence.

 

[albert88]

Some of the replies in this thread, especially the first few, seemed like they didn't read or understand your message. Those people need to re-read your original post: you depend on this woman for financial support, a home, etc.

Now...listen to me carefully as I'll give you a different point of view...

You have 3 situations here on your hand:

1. Wife's mental health is degrading
2. Your financial stability could potentially be in uncertain times up ahead; and
3. Your sexual "needs" are not being met

So hear me out...

For number 3 - what happens when you get your satisfaction? You get some action, you release, and...done. All that energy is up and gone away. For self-satisfaction.

Another way to view this is possibly to try sexual transmutation.

This is where you save your sexual energy and direct it towards a bigger cause, a goal, something greater than what you can achieve on your own.

Think about it - you have a challenge on hand right now, it's probably only going to get more challenging unless you get super-lucky and find (another) sugar-mama type of deal. You may actually be able to pull that off with transmutation. Or, you may be able to accomplish other (bigger) goals that result in much much more meaningful outcomes than busting a nut to feel satisfied.

Take a good look at yourself, look back at any point and time in life you had full sexual satisfaction. What purpose did it serve? How far did it propel you?

I personally have "done it all" as far as a male/female combo can go. Any and all sexual acts. I've had the most aggressive females in my bedroom who not only "allowed" me to do as I wished, they demanded that I do. Front door, back door, up stairs, down stairs, sit on their face, and on and on and on. Listen buddy, none of it resulted in any real "satisfaction". If anything, I always wanted more. I think it's built into us as men to want more.

I've had 3 rounds of sexual transmutation in my life. 2 times were with complete abstinence, and once was with sexual activity without orgasm (you save it). All 3 times resulted in amazing energy, confidence, drive, focus, goal oriented, better health, and on and on. I'm on round 4 right now going on my 2nd week, it's just starting - this round I plan to go 3 months - then a 1 week break - and right back into it.

Good luck buddy. Don't knock it 'till you try it.

Read up!

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

Some of the replies in this thread, especially the first few, seemed like they didn't read or understand your message. Those people need to re-read your original post: you depend on this woman for financial support, a home, etc.

Now...listen to me carefully as I'll give you a different point of view...

You have 3 situations here on your hand:

1. Wife's mental health is degrading
2. Your financial stability could potentially be in uncertain times up ahead; and
3. Your sexual "needs" are not being met

So hear me out...

For number 3 - what happens when you get your satisfaction? You get some action, you release, and...done. All that energy is up and gone away. For self-satisfaction.

Another way to view this is possibly to try sexual transmutation.

This is where you save your sexual energy and direct it towards a bigger cause, a goal, something greater than what you can achieve on your own.

Think about it - you have a challenge on hand right now, it's probably only going to get more challenging unless you get super-lucky and find (another) sugar-mama type of deal. You may actually be able to pull that off with transmutation. Or, you may be able to accomplish other (bigger) goals that result in much much more meaningful outcomes than busting a nut to feel satisfied.

Take a good look at yourself, look back at any point and time in life you had full sexual satisfaction. What purpose did it serve? How far did it propel you?

I personally have "done it all" as far as a male/female combo can go. Any and all sexual acts. I've had the most aggressive females in my bedroom who not only "allowed" me to do as I wished, they demanded that I do. Front door, back door, up stairs, down stairs, sit on their face, and on and on and on. Listen buddy, none of it resulted in any real "satisfaction". If anything, I always wanted more. I think it's built into us as men to want more.

I've had 3 rounds of sexual transmutation in my life. 2 times were with complete abstinence, and once was with sexual activity without orgasm (you save it). All 3 times resulted in amazing energy, confidence, drive, focus, goal oriented, better health, and on and on. I'm on round 4 right now going on my 2nd week, it's just starting - this round I plan to go 3 months - then a 1 week break - and right back into it.

Good luck buddy. Don't knock it 'till you try it.

Read up!

Yes, you do present a different perspective. I believe I understand what you're saying; the drive/desire for sexual satisfaction or release becomes all consuming and an endless quest. If you saw 'Scent Of A Woman', Al Pacino's character, Lt. Colonel Frank Slade, lived for sex, food, and drink and he was like that before he lost his vision. If a man has something else be it a profession or passion, having an active, satisfying sex life isn't incompatible. He lives a balanced life. That's what is notable in Eastern philosophy; living a balanced life. It's a principle of Traditional Chinese Medicine.

I do know, at this moment, I don't ever want to re-marry when my wife is gone. Also, no sugar mama situation. I ended up in that because of illness, as you noted. But, there will be money that will come to me. With or without sex, trying to hold onto my life with untreatable bipolar illness has been like Sisyphus pushing the bolder up the mountain, only to have it roll back down and that will remain the most monumental challenge that I will be dealing with until I reach my expiration. I'm still figuring out my life.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

I rarely post, although I read this forum regularly. Intimacy in marriage is very important. It usually means different things for the different genders; perhaps not always, but that is very common. For one spouse to deny the other spouse sexual intimacy without good cause (medical condition, sexually transmitted disease, etc) is, at best, selfish. At worst, it can mean many other things - none of them being good for the marriage. I am not a passive aggressive person, but can you just imagine if you had responded to her "no sex" missive with "OK, if you insist, but that means I will no longer take you out to eat, take you to the movies, buy you things that you want, and I will only mow my half of the lawn, although I will go out to eat by myself, to the movies by myself and buy myself whatever I want." People feel rejected in different ways. Categorically, sexual rejection to a man is normally internalized as rejection of him as a person. I am sorry for that. My (thankfully) ex-wife was sexually controlling and, candidly - a sexual albatross. I divorced her after dealing with her for 27 years. I later remarried, but just being away from her was a relief, albeit at a high financial price. I would not wish being married to a narcissist on anyone, even on someone who was a lousy person. It was a hellish existence.

You've been there, so you understand it from the inside. Now that my wife is descending into dementia, I'm her brain, legal health advocate(the doctors speak with me), unofficially managing finances(The DOPA hasn't been put into force, yet). I'm watching her die, even as we go from doctor to doctor to manage conditions that impact or are related to dementia(poorly controlled type 2 diabetes and urinary tract infections). Her surviving sister back in Maryland has already entered advanced dementia. Two other sisters died from complications of dementia.

Many times, I feel I can't deal with her anymore and just want to leave, even though I'd be living in a van or a station wagon, but for my own values, I'll be with her until I can't do it any more. That point will be reached, I believe, in the next six months to a year, given how rapidly she's declining. But I am going to seek out women. I'll find an excuse to get out for a couple of hours. I had a therapist who'd been career Army; served several combat tours in Vietnam as a chopper pilot. He said that if a man stays in combat for six months, he'll go mad. His point to me was that being locked into an intense situation every day, with no relief, will lead to emotional and physical damage. At the end of September my wife will be seen by the director of the memory clinic where she's being assessed. The direction of her life and mine will be, I hope, clearer.

 

[Jungle Cruiser]

You've been there, so you understand it from the inside. Now that my wife is descending into dementia, I'm her brain, legal health advocate(the doctors speak with me), unofficially managing finances(The DOPA hasn't been put into force, yet). I'm watching her die, even as we go from doctor to doctor to manage conditions that impact or are related to dementia(poorly controlled type 2 diabetes and urinary tract infections). Her surviving sister back in Maryland has already entered advanced dementia. Two other sisters died from complications of dementia.

Many times, I feel I can't deal with her anymore and just want to leave, even though I'd be living in a van or a station wagon, but for my own values, I'll be with her until I can't do it any more. That point will be reached, I believe, in the next six months to a year, given how rapidly she's declining. But I am going to seek out women. I'll find an excuse to get out for a couple of hours. I had a therapist who'd been career Army; served several combat tours in Vietnam as a chopper pilot. He said that if a man stays in combat for six months, he'll go mad. His point to me was that being locked into an intense situation every day, with no relief, will lead to emotional and physical damage. At the end of September my wife will be seen by the director of the memory clinic where she's being assessed. The direction of her life and mine will be, I hope, clearer.

My very best wishes for you.

I dealt with dementia for 5 years with my Mom. I understand, as much as I can.

My ex-wife was terrible. I stayed with her because I had three children, so I shifted my focus from being a satisfied husband, to being a great Dad and coach. If being able to raise my kids meant that I had to die inside (sexually), then that is what I did. For them, but out of commitment to them, meaning it was a gift to me. I did not cheat on her, because that was a standard that I set for myself.

After her 2nd affair, I "fired her", and filed for divorce. Ironically, the one thing she withheld from me was the one thing she used to attract other men. She married her 2nd affair partner, the poor bastard.

 

[Dicky]

You've been there, so you understand it from the inside. Now that my wife is descending into dementia, I'm her brain, legal health advocate(the doctors speak with me), unofficially managing finances(The DOPA hasn't been put into force, yet). I'm watching her die, even as we go from doctor to doctor to manage conditions that impact or are related to dementia(poorly controlled type 2 diabetes and urinary tract infections). Her surviving sister back in Maryland has already entered advanced dementia. Two other sisters died from complications of dementia.

Many times, I feel I can't deal with her anymore and just want to leave, even though I'd be living in a van or a station wagon, but for my own values, I'll be with her until I can't do it any more. That point will be reached, I believe, in the next six months to a year, given how rapidly she's declining. But I am going to seek out women. I'll find an excuse to get out for a couple of hours. I had a therapist who'd been career Army; served several combat tours in Vietnam as a chopper pilot. He said that if a man stays in combat for six months, he'll go mad. His point to me was that being locked into an intense situation every day, with no relief, will lead to emotional and physical damage. At the end of September my wife will be seen by the director of the memory clinic where she's being assessed. The direction of her life and mine will be, I hope, clearer.

This is a very tough situation. God bless you for sucking it up and taking care of her in her last years.

 

[albert88]

Yes, you do present a different perspective. I believe I understand what you're saying; the drive/desire for sexual satisfaction or release becomes all consuming and an endless quest. If you saw 'Scent Of A Woman', Al Pacino's character, Lt. Colonel Frank Slade, lived for sex, food, and drink and he was like that before he lost his vision. If a man has something else be it a profession or passion, having an active, satisfying sex life isn't incompatible. He lives a balanced life. That's what is notable in Eastern philosophy; living a balanced life. It's a principle of Traditional Chinese Medicine.

I do know, at this moment, I don't ever want to re-marry when my wife is gone. Also, no sugar mama situation. I ended up in that because of illness, as you noted. But, there will be money that will come to me. With or without sex, trying to hold onto my life with untreatable bipolar illness has been like Sisyphus pushing the bolder up the mountain, only to have it roll back down and that will remain the most monumental challenge that I will be dealing with until I reach my expiration. I'm still figuring out my life.

Oh man excellent - you're actually open to the concept. That's the first step.

Anytime you're stuck in life, feel hopeless, the tool of sexual transmutation can be used. The first few days/weeks may not make sense, but it will all come together. Try to mix it in with daily meditation - just a few minutes. However you do it, let your conscious mind know that you're retaining your energy to use for a greater purpose. Let your mind find what goals you seek, let your meditation point your energy towards your goals that you're now able to tap into with transmutation.

You can accomplish most of what you set your mind (and energy) to in order to better your situation, cope with your wife's dementia, and make your days ahead better than the recent past.

 

[Anonymon]

Using the drive for sex as motivation is useful, but at the same time, it’s most useful when you’re doing things that although they’ll benefit you in the long term, will open up more sex. You being dependent on her’s the real issue, not her. I’ve been with BPD folks before. It’s not easy to get out, and you might not be able to in your situation, but at the very least, I hope you can carve out a livable space for you within the relationship if you do decide to stay. It’s one thing to tell someone to leave someone else when they’re in their 20’s or 30’s. It’s another when you’re in your 70’s. I get it.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

Using the drive for sex as motivation is useful, but at the same time, it’s most useful when you’re doing things that although they’ll benefit you in the long term, will open up more sex. You being dependent on her’s the real issue, not her. I’ve been with BPD folks before. It’s not easy to get out, and you might not be able to in your situation, but at the very least, I hope you can carve out a livable space for you within the relationship if you do decide to stay. It’s one thing to tell someone to leave someone else when they’re in their 20’s or 30’s. It’s another when you’re in your 70’s. I get it.

I apologize for being repetitious when I say, at this juncture, with my wife's memory loss rapidly progressing, I'll care for her until I have to place her in memory care. I love her as a person but not romantically, and haven't been for over a decade. And, again, my staying in the marriage before bipolar re-entered and blew up my life, is a reflection of my own emotional damage/co-dependent nature which I didn't understand until couples therapy. Like a recovering alcoholic or drug addict, I will always need to be aware of my dependent nature, though I know that behaviors can be altered. However, a song written by Jule Styne & Sammy Cahn, recorded by Frank Sinatra, speaks to me; 'I Fall In Love Too Easily'. Its always been that way with me.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

My very best wishes for you.

I dealt with dementia for 5 years with my Mom. I understand, as much as I can.

My ex-wife was terrible. I stayed with her because I had three children, so I shifted my focus from being a satisfied husband, to being a great Dad and coach. If being able to raise my kids meant that I had to die inside (sexually), then that is what I did. For them, but out of commitment to them, meaning it was a gift to me. I did not cheat on her, because that was a standard that I set for myself.

After her 2nd affair, I "fired her", and filed for divorce. Ironically, the one thing she withheld from me was the one thing she used to attract other men. She married her 2nd affair partner, the poor bastard.

Cancer I know. It took both my parents. I knew nothing of dementia until it began taking my wife's sisters. She's the baby, at 77. Enjoy every morsel and moment of life.

As for your ex, sort of sounds like she saw you as a man to have children with but not to give all her love too. You were a stand up guy in that marriage though you were dying inside. It's heartening to know that once the marriage was over, you healed and met a woman who was emotionally healthy, with whom you share a passionate physical and emotional relationship. What I didn't understand about my wife, and what I naive about, was that many men had dumped her because she was batshit crazy; emotionally dysregulated and a heavy drinker. The fact that she was truly a babe made her a magnet for men, many of us thinking below the waist. Unless I'm talking with other men, I make an effort not to keep replaying the past. Useless, except as something from which to learn.

 

[Jungle Cruiser]

Cancer I know. It took both my parents. I knew nothing of dementia until it began taking my wife's sisters. She's the baby, at 77. Enjoy every morsel and moment of life.

As for your ex, sort of sounds like she saw you as a man to have children with but not to give all her love too. You were a stand up guy in that marriage though you were dying inside. It's heartening to know that once the marriage was over, you healed and met a woman who was emotionally healthy, with whom you share a passionate physical and emotional relationship. What I didn't understand about my wife, and what I naive about, was that many men had dumped her because she was batshit crazy; emotionally dysregulated and a heavy drinker. The fact that she was truly a babe made her a magnet for men, many of us thinking below the waist. Unless I'm talking with other men, I make an effort not to keep replaying the past. Useless, except as something from which to learn.

Yes - I gave her love until I couldn't, because I had been so demoralized and then I lost respect for her. Based on her actions and her decisions, not mine.

Your comment about replaying the past is spot on. Indignation, even righteous indignation, can become its own prison. It is very easy to entomb yourself in a prison of "I was wronged" victimization. I was never a victim. I was a willing participant in everything, except her immorality (she gets sole ownership of that). Except for this thread, I've not spoken or thought about her in years, and she has zero emotional occupancy in my mind. She and her husband could win the lottery, and that would be OK. She and her husband could lose everything they have, and that would be equally OK. Harboring hardness of the heart against someone is a 100% losing proposition. It would be like me drinking poison but somehow expecting the another person to suffer. It does not work that way and, even if it did, I don't wish her harm - I simply don't want to be in her presence due to her behavior the last few times that has been necessary. I am free. I am lucky.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

Yes - I gave her love until I couldn't, because I had been so demoralized and then I lost respect for her. Based on her actions and her decisions, not mine.

Your comment about replaying the past is spot on. Indignation, even righteous indignation, can become its own prison. It is very easy to entomb yourself in a prison of "I was wronged" victimization. I was never a victim. I was a willing participant in everything, except her immorality (she gets sole ownership of that). Except for this thread, I've not spoken or thought about her in years, and she has zero emotional occupancy in my mind. She and her husband could win the lottery, and that would be OK. She and her husband could lose everything they have, and that would be equally OK. Harboring hardness of the heart against someone is a 100% losing proposition. It would be like me drinking poison but somehow expecting the another person to suffer. It does not work that way and, even if it did, I don't wish her harm - I simply don't want to be in her presence due to her behavior the last few times that has been necessary. I am free. I am lucky.

What does leave me feeling bad is that I'm not the man like my father. If I could have heard him, he would have said, 'Why the hell are you staying with that woman? Get out, now!' I'm angry at myself for not being able to walk away from her when I was healthy and working. She would have latched onto someone else. Again, it reveals something wrong with me, emotionally/psychologically. And, once again, quoting from Shakespeare's 'Julius Cesar', "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in the stars but in ourselves." I must transform into an emotionally stronger and independent man. If I didn't learn anything from 30 years with this woman, then I truly am a fool.

 

[Jungle Cruiser]

Some people rescue and enable their entire lives. They never do what you've now done.

Celebrate that you have gone through the hard work of identifying something that will change you in a very positive way. Now the harder part, intentionally making that change, day by day, and maybe five minutes at a time - but always by intentionally pulling yourself out of your old pattern. Regarding your Dad - first congratulations that you had a great Dad (I did as well). But even great men can give great advice that he, himself, may not have followed if he had actually been in the same situation. Regardless, looking too frequently in the rear view mirror just increases the likelihood that you will run into something in front of you. I'd suggest thinking about Dad's advice one more time, smiling, and then let it be part of your past -- allowing you to focus on a better future.