Defy Consultation Today-Conclusion/Protocol

[busa2009]

Im 41 African American(if that matters?) work out 4xweek. Been having tons of sympotoms. Im scheduled for Dr Crisler June 30(your thoughts on that as well)Dr Saya was booked to far out everyone here seems to praise him a lot..From my readings i see about 4 red flags Hematocrit,ldl,estradol,luetinizing harmones, now what that means not for sure


Protocol:

1. Increase hydration

2. Pt advised to establish relationship with local PCP

3. DHEA 25mg Troche SL BID

4. HCG 100iu SQ QAM

5. Test cyp 200mg/mL 0.4mL SQ BIW

6. F/U labs 6 weeks per Pt: Full TRT, Vit D

7. Anastrazole 0.5mg w/ DIM 200mg PO BIW on shot days

8. Vit D 5000iu PO QD

Question/s
since my Test is already 461 will/can that decrease since TRT shuts down your production?
Will the Anastrazole stop production or bind Estrogen?
Whats a good product for Vitamin D?
CBC With Differential/Platelet
WBC 6.7 3.4 - 10.8 01
RBC 5.05 4.14 - 5.80 01
Hemoglobin 15.8 12.6 - 17.7 01
Hematocrit 47.9 37.5 - 51.0 01
MCV 95 79 - 97 01
MCH 31.3 26.6 - 33.0 01
MCHC 33.0 31.5 - 35.7 01
RDW 13.8 12.3 - 15.4 01
Platelets 198 150 - 379 01
Neutrophils 56
Lymphs 36
Monocytes 6
Eos 1
Basos 1
Neutrophils (Absolute) 3.7 1.4 - 7.0 01
Lymphs (Absolute) 2.4 0.7 - 3.1 01
Monocytes(Absolute) 0.4 0.1 - 0.9 01
Eos (Absolute) 0.1 0.0 - 0.4 01
Baso (Absolute) 0.1 0.0 - 0.2 01
Immature Granulocytes 0
Immature Grans (Abs) 0.1 0.0 - 0.1 01
Comp. Metabolic Panel (14)
Glucose, Serum 95 65 - 99 01
BUN 15 6 - 24 01
Creatinine, Serum 1.24 0.76 - 1.27 01
eGFR If NonAfricn Am 71 >59
eGFR If Africn Am 82 >59

BUN/Creatinine Ratio 12 9 - 20
Sodium, Serum 139 134 - 144 01
Potassium, Serum 4.1 3.5 - 5.2 01
Chloride, Serum 102 97 - 108 01
Carbon Dioxide, Total 24 18 - 29 01
Calcium, Serum 9.0 8.7 - 10.2 01
Protein, Total, Serum 7.6 6.0 - 8.5 01
Albumin, Serum 3.9 3.5 - 5.5 01
Globulin, Total 3.7 1.5 - 4.5
A/G Ratio 1.1 1.1 - 2.5
Bilirubin, Total 0.8 0.0 - 1.2 01
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 66 39 - 117 01
AST (SGOT) 28 0 - 40 01
ALT (SGPT) 40 0 - 44 01
Lipid Panel w/ Chol/HDL Ratio
Cholesterol, Total 157 100 - 199 01
Triglycerides 54 0 - 149 01
HDL Cholesterol 44 >39 01
VLDL Cholesterol Cal 11 5 - 40
LDL Cholesterol Calc 102 0 - 99
T. Chol/HDL Ratio 3.6 ratio units 0.0 - 5.0
Testosterone,Free and Total Testosterone, Serum 461 ng/dL 348 - 1197 01 Comment: Adult male reference interval is based on a population of lean males up to 40 years old.
Free Testosterone(Direct) 9.7 6.8 - 21.5 02
DHEA-Sulfate 272.1 102.6 - 416.3 01
TSH 1.760 0.450 - 4.500 01
Luteinizing Hormone(LH), S LH 10.4 High mIU/mL 1.7 - 8.6 01

INTERVAL LAB
Prostate-Specific Ag, Serum Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 0.7 ng/mL 0.0 - 4.0 01 Roche ECLIA methodology. According to the American Urological Association, Serum PSA should decrease and remain at undetectable levels after radical prostatectomy. The AUA defines biochemical recurrence as an initial PSA value 0.2 ng/mL or greater followed by a subsequent confirmatory PSA value 0.2 ng/mL or greater. Values obtained with different assay methods or kits cannot be used interchangeably. Results cannot be interpreted as absolute evidence of the presence or absence of malignant disease.
Estradiol, Sensitive 45.5 High pg/mL 8.0 - 35.0 02
This test was developed and its performance characteristics determined by LabCorp. It has not been cleared by the Food and Drug Administration. Methodology: Liquid chromatography tandem mass spectrometry(LC/MS/MS)
Progesterone 0.7 ng/mL 0.2 - 1.

 

[PAUL-E]

I would give defy a call and ask for your dosing protocol, the protocol itself looks like a vary good staring point. The HCG will help keep your testical's producing testosterone. Glad you got things going! bit of advise take it easy for a little while in the gym after starting rapid growth and pushing it too hard can sometimes lead to an injury.

 

[Vince]

Looks like you main concern will be estrogen, pretty high for just starting TRT.

 

[PAUL-E]

Looks like you main concern will be estrogen, pretty high for just starting TRT.

I think that's pre TRT

 

[ERO]

Your dosages will be on the bottles of the meds when they arrive as well.

Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[trt4me]

If those numbers are pre trt I wonder how you would have felt if you just got your e2 down which should give you a better feeling and possibly also lower shbg to get more free test.

 

[busa2009]

If those numbers are pre trt I wonder how you would have felt if you just got your e2 down which should give you a better feeling and possibly also lower shbg to get more free test.

Hmmm that's a thought. Question if my test level is already 461 by taking the test cyp will or can that number go down since I'm shutting down my production. Or will that number rise

 

[busa2009]

Looks like you main concern will be estrogen, pretty high for just starting TRT.

Those are pre trt numbers

 

[busa2009]

I would give defy a call and ask for your dosing protocol, the protocol itself looks like a vary good staring point. The HCG will help keep your testical's producing testosterone. Glad you got things going! bit of advise take it easy for a little while in the gym after starting rapid growth and pushing it too hard can sometimes lead to an injury.

Taking it easy in the gym is easier said than done with me. Lol. It's therapy for me and I just like lifting heavy $&@$..lol. I get what your saying though. I called them but they haven't got back with me yet.

 

[busa2009]

I would give defy a call and ask for your dosing protocol, the protocol itself looks like a vary good staring point. The HCG will help keep your testical's producing testosterone. Glad you got things going! bit of advise take it easy for a little while in the gym after starting rapid growth and pushing it too hard can sometimes lead to an injury.

Here's what they sent

1. Increase hydration

2. Pt advised to establish relationship with local PCP

3. DHEA 25mg Troche SL BID

4. HCG 100iu SQ QAM

5. Test cyp 200mg/mL 0.4mL SQ BIW

6. F/U labs 6 weeks per Pt: Full TRT, Vit D

7. Anastrazole 0.5mg w/ DIM 200mg PO BIW on shot days

8. Vit D 5000iu PO QD

 

[Jason Sypolt]

Here's what they sent

1. Increase hydration

2. Pt advised to establish relationship with local PCP

3. DHEA 25mg Troche SL BID

4. HCG 100iu SQ QAM

5. Test cyp 200mg/mL 0.4mL SQ BIW

6. F/U labs 6 weeks per Pt: Full TRT, Vit D

7. Anastrazole 0.5mg w/ DIM 200mg PO BIW on shot days

8. Vit D 5000iu PO QD

I started with Defy in June and have been on the protocol that Dr. Crisler gave me for about 3 weeks now. Been on TRT (just testosterone) for over a year now. My protocol is similar to yours. I also have high estradiol, hematocrit is almost the same, and elevated LDL and Trigycerides.


My protocol from Defy:
- DHEA troche 25mg 2x each day. I saved money by getting 100mg troches that I divide into quarters.
- T-Cypionate 35mg Tuesdays and Fridays. I inject with 29g 1/2" 1/2cc insulin syringes in delts.
- Compounded Anastrozole/DIM capsules 0.5mg/200mg taken with each T injectsion
- HCG 100iu every morning. I use the same 1/2" insulin syringes, but could probably go smaller.


My mood and energy level and libido have been notably higher and more stable after the first couple of weeks. I think that the DHEA and HCG really help a lot with that. And the symptoms of high E2 are finally going away. I have followup labs in about 3 weeks, so it will be interesting to see what the numbers are considering how well I feel now. Dr. Crisler knows what he is doing.


My hematocrit has been stable at around 47.6-47.8 after being on TRT for over a year. If it goes above the low 50's then it's time to go donate some blood.


I read somewhere that LDL and Triglycerides can be artificially elevated due to an imbalance in testosterone and estradiol among other things. That can affect the thyroid which can affect cholesterol. Hormones are sort of like a spider web. If you touch one part, the rest moves.


My last LH reading was 0.1 - basically shut down since I've been on TRT over a year. I'm expecting that to increase for the followup labs since I'm taking HCG now. LH is important because there are receptors not only in the testicles, but over the rest of the body as well.

 

[busa2009]

I started with Defy in June and have been on the protocol that Dr. Crisler gave me for about 3 weeks now. Been on TRT (just testosterone) for over a year now. My protocol is similar to yours. I also have high estradiol, hematocrit is almost the same, and elevated LDL and Trigycerides.


My protocol from Defy:
- DHEA troche 25mg 2x each day. I saved money by getting 100mg troches that I divide into quarters.
- T-Cypionate 35mg Tuesdays and Fridays. I inject with 29g 1/2" 1/2cc insulin syringes in delts.
- Compounded Anastrozole/DIM capsules 0.5mg/200mg taken with each T injectsion
- HCG 100iu every morning. I use the same 1/2" insulin syringes, but could probably go smaller.


My mood and energy level and libido have been notably higher and more stable after the first couple of weeks. I think that the DHEA and HCG really help a lot with that. And the symptoms of high E2 are finally going away. I have followup labs in about 3 weeks, so it will be interesting to see what the numbers are considering how well I feel now. Dr. Crisler knows what he is doing.


My hematocrit has been stable at around 47.6-47.8 after being on TRT for over a year. If it goes above the low 50's then it's time to go donate some blood.


I read somewhere that LDL and Triglycerides can be artificially elevated due to an imbalance in testosterone and estradiol among other things. That can affect the thyroid which can affect cholesterol. Hormones are sort of like a spider web. If you touch one part, the rest moves.


My last LH reading was 0.1 - basically shut down since I've been on TRT over a year. I'm expecting that to increase for the followup labs since I'm taking HCG now. LH is important because there are receptors not only in the testicles, but over the rest of the body as well.

Wow. Thanks for that very informative reply. Geez I belong to a lot of forums this forum is by far the best in information and forth coming without the extra BS if you know what I mean. My question I'm looking for is this. If my free test is already 461 will the trt bring that lower or raise it due to me shutting down due to being on trt

 

[Jason Sypolt]

I definitely know what you mean. Some forums are often a maze and minefield of incomplete information and bro-science.

You are basically on a dose of 160mg per week which isn't extremely high, but it's not a small dose either. Your Total T will undoubtedly go up. HCG also increases both testosterone and estradiol. So your natural production does shut down, but the HCG helps to counteract that, and the T-Cypionate should give you good results.

For reference, before going to Defy and being solely on T-Cypionate at 120mg per week, my high Total T was 1059.9 and low Total T was 832. Every single person is different though. For me, I was feeling nothing at that level because I'm apparently very sensitive to the effects of estradiol. A small amount of excess E2 can negate s large amount of testosterone. This is much more complex than just getting a shot in the arm or rubbing in a cream as the sole treatment. It's unfortunate that it's difficult to find a doctor that understands that. Which is why I finally went to Defy after suffering since starting TRT.

 

[CoastWatcher]

My question I'm looking for is this. If my free test is already 461 will the trt bring that lower or raise it due to me shutting down due to being on trt

I think you mean that your total testosterone is sitting at 461, and your free testosterone was measured at 9.7. If I understand your question, you will certainly see an increase in both as you adopt your protocol.

 

[busa2009]

I think you mean that your total testosterone is sitting at 461, and your free testosterone was measured at 9.7. If I understand your question, you will certainly see an increase in both as you adopt your protocol.

Lol.. Yes said it in my head correct and typed it wrong. Thanks.

 

[johndoesmith]

I definitely know what you mean. Some forums are often a maze and minefield of incomplete information and bro-science.

You are basically on a dose of 160mg per week which isn't extremely high, but it's not a small dose either. Your Total T will undoubtedly go up. HCG also increases both testosterone and estradiol. So your natural production does shut down, but the HCG helps to counteract that, and the T-Cypionate should give you good results.

For reference, before going to Defy and being solely on T-Cypionate at 120mg per week, my high Total T was 1059.9 and low Total T was 832. Every single person is different though. For me, I was feeling nothing at that level because I'm apparently very sensitive to the effects of estradiol. A small amount of excess E2 can negate s large amount of testosterone. This is much more complex than just getting a shot in the arm or rubbing in a cream as the sole treatment. It's unfortunate that it's difficult to find a doctor that understands that. Which is why I finally went to Defy after suffering since starting TRT.

What was your E2 that was preventing you from feeling a total of 1000, and what did you need to adjust it to?

When you had it fixed, did you feel all of your symptoms resolve?

 

[PAUL-E]

My question I'm looking for is this. If my free test is already 461 will the trt bring that lower or raise it due to me shutting down due to being on trt

I will try to answer if your natural total testosterone was 461 the HCG will help keep your testacies producing testosterone I cant say you will still produce around 461 total but what you do produce should add to the testosterone you inject so you usually require less testosterone to be injected but the signal from your brain to your testicles to produce testosterone will be shut down. This is just what I think and I could be dead wrong but I'm sure if I am someone more knowledgeable will set me straight and we will both learn something. I hope I understood and answered your question correctly.

 

[busa2009]

I will try to answer if your natural total testosterone was 461 the HCG will help keep your testacies producing testosterone I cant say you will still produce around 461 total but what you do produce should add to the testosterone you inject so you usually require less testosterone to be injected but the signal from your brain to your testicles to produce testosterone will be shut down. This is just what I think and I could be dead wrong but I'm sure if I am someone more knowledgeable will set me straight and we will both learn something. I hope I understood and answered your question correctly.

In theory what your saying is that I could be lower than 461 by being n TRT?

 

[PAUL-E]

In theory what your saying is that I could be lower than 461 by being n TRT?

your getting testosterone from an external source via your testosterone injections and your testicles should produce testosterone because of the HCG but doing both I'm sure your levels should be a lot higher than 461.

 

[busa2009]

your getting testosterone from an external source via your testosterone injections and your testicles should produce testosterone because of the HCG but doing both I'm sure your levels should be a lot higher than 461.

Got it.
Thanks