Cost of Care: Crisler to Defy

[cappy]

I was one of Dr. John's guys, and I chose to move to Defy Medical. I'd like to share my observations with respect to cost, as the costs are considerably different.

Testosterone Cypionate, 200mg/ml, 5ml, Empower:
Cost through Dr. Crisler was $37.50
Cost through Defy is $68
Cost through Defy is 81% higher

Anastrozole, 0.5mg capsules, Empower
Cost through Dr. Crisler was $0.80 per capsule
Cost through Defy is $2.00 per capsule
Cost through Defy is 150% higher

Human Chorionic Gonadotropin, 12,000IU vial, Empower
Cost through Dr. Crisler was $75
Cost through Defy is $79
Cost through Defy is 5.3% higher

Shipping
Shipping cost through Dr. Crisler was a $30 flat fee
Shipping cost through Defy is selectable. Standard shipping (8-11 days) is $12
Defy gives its patients the option of saving up to 60% on shipping costs

Virtual Office Visits
A VOV with Dr. Crisler was $75
A Follow-up consultation with a Dr. at Defy is $165
A Follow-up consultation with a PA at Defy is $60
A Follow-up consultation with an RN at Defy is $45
The cost of speaking with a Dr. at Defy is 120% higher than Dr. Crisler was, but there are lower cost options available that Dr. Crisler did not offer.

I didn't appreciate what a good job Dr. Crisler did at holding down the cost of care. It's sad we've lost him.

Lab Testing-

A typical follow-up panel that Dr. John would prescribe for me (via LabCorp) included:

070001 Testosterone, Total, LC/MS - $21.03
082016 Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum - $17.71
005009 CBC With Differential/Platelet - $6.33
322000 Comp. Metabolic Panel (14) - $15.19
140200 Estradiol, Sensitive - $22.76
004020 DHEA-Sulfate - $18.12

for the above, my cost (including $1.98 for the venipuncture) was $103.12. These costs were negotiated by my insurance, but they did not pay any of it. I paid this cost out-of-pocket.

Through Defy, the costs of these tests are:

070001 Testosterone, Total, LC/MS - not available
082016 Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum - $44.00
005009 CBC With Differential/Platelet - $15
322000 Comp. Metabolic Panel (14) - $15
140200 Estradiol, Sensitive - $38.00
004020 DHEA-Sulfate - $33

So, choosing the available tests a-la-carte totals $145.00, and that does not include 070001 Testosterone.

(edited 5/29/19 with itemized costs for Labwork as ordered by Dr. Crisler)

 

[Vince Carter]

I had looked around and not found costs cheaper than Defy it was the FTF visit in Michigan with Dr C that usually deterred me from being able to consider a change. I appreciate you putting that together like you have.

 

[mooseman109]

I looked at andrologix and they are similar priced to defy, slightly cheaper. A couple local clinics seem to be a bit less, but one only does saliva testing which I have not bought into yet. Defy offers a great service for fair price.

 

[Cataceous]

Any fair comparison needs to look at lab testing too. On many items Defy has the best prices around.

 

[cappy]

Any fair comparison needs to look at lab testing too. On many items Defy has the best prices around.

Good point. I can pull that together too.

 

[cappy]

I had looked around and not found costs cheaper than Defy it was the FTF visit in Michigan with Dr C that usually deterred me from being able to consider a change. I appreciate you putting that together like you have.

Starting about in Sept '18, the FTF visit requirement was dropped. I was expecting a flood of new patients to make getting appointments difficult. I don't think he lived long enough for that change to bear fruit.

 

[Vince]

Thanks for the comparison.

 

[cappy]

Original post edited to include lab costs.

 

[captain]

My last VOV with Crisler was 90.

 

[Dasein88]

I was one of Dr. John's guys, and I chose to move to Defy Medical. I'd like to share my observations with respect to cost, as the costs are considerably different.

Testosterone Cypionate, 200mg/ml, 5ml, Empower:
Cost through Dr. Crisler was $37.50
Cost through Defy is $68
Cost through Defy is 81% higher

Anastrozole, 0.5mg capsules, Empower
Cost through Dr. Crisler was $0.80 per capsule
Cost through Defy is $2.00 per capsule
Cost through Defy is 150% higher

Human Chorionic Gonadotropin, 12,000IU vial, Empower
Cost through Dr. Crisler was $75
Cost through Defy is $79
Cost through Defy is 5.3% higher

Shipping
Shipping cost through Dr. Crisler was a $30 flat fee
Shipping cost through Defy is selectable. Standard shipping (8-11 days) is $12
Defy gives its patients the option of saving up to 60% on shipping costs

Virtual Office Visits
A VOV with Dr. Crisler was $75
A Follow-up consultation with a Dr. at Defy is $165
A Follow-up consultation with a PA at Defy is $60
A Follow-up consultation with an RN at Defy is $45
The cost of speaking with a Dr. at Defy is 120% higher than Dr. Crisler was, but there are lower cost options available that Dr. Crisler did not offer.

I didn't appreciate what a good job Dr. Crisler did at holding down the cost of care. It's sad we've lost him.

Lab Testing-

A typical follow-up panel that Dr. John would prescribe for me (via LabCorp) included:

070001 Testosterone, Total, LC/MS
082016 Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum
005009 CBC With Differential/Platelet
322000 Comp. Metabolic Panel (14)
140200 Estradiol, Sensitive
004020 DHEA-Sulfate

for the above, my cost was $103.12. Admittedly, the test prices may have been negotiated by my insurance, I can't say for sure, but I paid out-of-pocket for these.

Through Defy, the costs of these tests are:

070001 Testosterone, Total, LC/MS - not available
082016 Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum - $44.00
005009 CBC With Differential/Platelet - $15
322000 Comp. Metabolic Panel (14) - $15
140200 Estradiol, Sensitive - $38.00
004020 DHEA-Sulfate - $33

So, choosing the available tests a-la-carte totals $145.00, and that does not include 070001 Testosterone.

Ballsy post. I agree, Defy's prices are somewhat of a ripoff and they don't even understand hormones nearly as well as they claim to. Their nurses don't appear to know anything. I certainly wouldn't put my trust in the nurses or PAs to give me a meaningful answer to any of my questions.

If you can arrange to get labs for cheaper than their Labcorp deal, that would help a lot. But that doesn't help when they recommended I take danazol, sold me $150 worth, and I cannot take it becuase of horrible sides, or return it because of company policies, so I'm stuck with it. Essentially, Defy told me to eat shit. It reflects very poorly on them and that alone made me want to stop dealing with them.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Ballsy post. I agree, Defy's prices are somewhat of a ripoff and they don't even understand hormones nearly as well as they claim to. Their nurses don't appear to know anything. I certainly wouldn't put my trust in the nurses or PAs to give me a meaningful answer to any of my questions.

If you can arrange to get labs for cheaper than their Labcorp deal, that would help a lot. But that doesn't help when they recommended I take danazol, sold me $150 worth, and I cannot take it becuase of horrible sides, or return it because of company policies, so I'm stuck with it. Essentially, Defy told me to eat shit. It reflects very poorly on them and that alone made me want to stop dealing with them.

All I will say is that your opinion is not shared by the vast majority of patients Defy treats.

I’m sorry you had a negative experience.

 

[Dasein88]

All I will say is that your opinion is not shared by the vast majority of patients Defy treats.

I’m sorry you had a negative experience.

Well, I doubt that the vast majority of Defy's patients were sold $150 worth of medication that they cannot use or get their money back and essentially told to eat shit. If that were the case, Defy would be on the ropes.

 

[Vtail]

Well, I doubt that the vast majority of Defy's patients were sold $150 worth of medication that they cannot use or get their money back and essentially told to eat shit. If that were the case, Defy would be on the ropes.

I had a $120 order of pills arrive slightly damaged a few months ago. I called both Defy & Empower to let them know, and was clear that I wasn't expecting a refund - maybe just replace the 5 out of 100 pills that were crushed. They sent a new batch (100 pills) free of charge.

 

[Vince Carter]

Lies...Defy took back a vial of Propionate from me.

 

[cappy]

Ballsy post. I agree, Defy's prices are somewhat of a ripoff and they don't even understand hormones nearly as well as they claim to. Their nurses don't appear to know anything. I certainly wouldn't put my trust in the nurses or PAs to give me a meaningful answer to any of my questions.

If you can arrange to get labs for cheaper than their Labcorp deal, that would help a lot. But that doesn't help when they recommended I take danazol, sold me $150 worth, and I cannot take it becuase of horrible sides, or return it because of company policies, so I'm stuck with it. Essentially, Defy told me to eat shit. It reflects very poorly on them and that alone made me want to stop dealing with them.

I don't consider being transparent about costs I've incurred to be ballsy, but thank you for the consideration.

To be clear, the care I've received from Defy has been fine and I'd recommend them to anyone who asks. I'm not flaming Defy in any way. Their customer service is absolutely superior to what Dr. Crisler offered, but my experience with Dr. Crisler taught me that I don't need the hand-holding, appointment reminders, and the other front-of-office services they provide. Maybe the higher drug costs represent the cost of that customer service.

 

[Vince Carter]

hand-holding, appointment reminders, and the other front-of-office services they provide.

I would concur...its those things where any of my problems originate, the medical care is first-rate, the rest of it, not so much.

 

[HarryCat2]

I always took them at their word when they say all sales are final and no refunds on medications, so I've eaten about $200 in unused med costs over the past couple of years. My bad.

 

[captain]

I don't know of any pharmacy that will take unused meds back. They may offer to dispose of them for you but your not going to get a refund.

 

[Vince]

I've been a patient of defy medical for 4 1/2 now. I have nothing but good things to say about them. You do have to educate yourself and understand what a commitment trt is.

 

[Vince Carter]

I always took them at their word when they say all sales are final and no refunds on medications, so I've eaten about $200 in unused med costs over the past couple of years. My bad.

Well of course they're not taking back meds you just didn't use. Obvious difference from shipping damage, or meds that caused severe reactions (me).