Clomid Raised T but Estradiol Too High

[Vince9272]

Hello, went on Clomid, about 6 mg a day (yes 6 mg) (don't like EOD dosing) and Total Testosterone went from 300 to 600 ng/dl. ED mostly resolved however Estradiol went from ~25 to 46 and have side effects from the Estradiol like becoming extremely pissed off and feeling like a little girl.


So obvious question is could I also use a low dose AI like Arimidex along with the Clomid? If I'm able to drop the Estradiol I technically might even be able to use an even lower dose Clomid due to reduced suppression on the HPT axis which would further reduce side effects.


Also was wondering is anyone else has sort of a "scatterbrain" feeling from Clomid like it disrupts short term memory, e.g. you'll drive somewhere and completely forget why you're there. When I stop Clomid it goes away.


Incidentally tried Nolvadex and had really bad bone/joint pain from the very beginning so stopped using it. Also used Cottonii with some kind of natural AI and didn't seem to have any effect.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Keeping an eye on estradiol is an imperative for patients on Clomid - many men find an AI is necessary. Was your e2 measured with the appropriate test, the sensitive, LC, MS/MS, lab test? If you're unsure, the ranges associated with the test will be a sure answer.

 

[a_crossfitter]

Hello, went on Clomid, about 6 mg a day (yes 6 mg) (don't like EOD dosing) and Total Testosterone went from 300 to 600 ng/dl. ED mostly resolved however Estradiol went from ~25 to 46 and have side effects from the Estradiol like becoming extremely pissed off and feeling like a little girl.


So obvious question is could I also use a low dose AI like Arimidex along with the Clomid? If I'm able to drop the Estradiol I technically might even be able to use an even lower dose Clomid due to reduced suppression on the HPT axis which would further reduce side effects.


Also was wondering is anyone else has sort of a "scatterbrain" feeling from Clomid like it disrupts short term memory, e.g. you'll drive somewhere and completely forget why you're there. When I stop Clomid it goes away.


Incidentally tried Nolvadex and had really bad bone/joint pain from the very beginning so stopped using it. Also used Cottonii with some kind of natural AI and didn't seem to have any effect.

46 is not "too high"....

I do .125mg anastrozole EOD with 25mg Test Prop ED and that seems to bring it in the 20s range.

 

[Vince9272]

The Estradiol test as all tests were done by Quest. The high end of the range is 39. Normally my Estradiol is always in the ~20 range but when it gets to 46, test results or no test results I know its way too high based on how I feel, which is to say I feel like shit. Need to keep it in the 20's to 30's. For anyone taking a low dose AI below 1 mg how do you get the AI that low, by a compounding pharmacy or can you buy it somewhere in fractional amounts less than 1 mg?

 

[Vince Carter]

It usually reasons such as this that we call those who do well on Clomid, a "Unicorn".

 

[JakeH]

The Estradiol test as all tests were done by Quest. The high end of the range is 39. Normally my Estradiol is always in the ~20 range but when it gets to 46, test results or no test results I know its way too high based on how I feel, which is to say I feel like shit. Need to keep it in the 20's to 30's. For anyone taking a low dose AI below 1 mg how do you get the AI that low, by a compounding pharmacy or can you buy it somewhere in fractional amounts less than 1 mg?

I get mine via Defy, compounded by Empower, at 0.1mg to be taken every 3.5 days.

 

[Vince9272]

Regarding the Unicorn statement, and I don't want to go off on a tangent with the thread but I think it may have to do with understanding if you have Primary or Secondary Hypogonadism. If you have Primary yes it most likely won't work. If you have Secondary there's no reason it shouldn't work unless you have a Hypothalamus and/or Pituitary issue. With me its reliable and effective except for side effects referenced above. Clomid also doesn't work immediately. With me it takes about 2 or 3 days for everything to adjust and start working. Some people might take longer. Dosing may also need to be different based on the person.

 

[Vince Carter]

Unicorn; You're not doing well on it, your E is out of control (indicated above in post #7), your word "scatterbrained" and you've resorted to an ultraUnorthodox protocol in order to force it to work...good luck.

 

[Vince9272]

So there's a million bodybuilders on PCT taking Clomid and an AI so they do this because...they like wasting money? There's a huge thriving PCT Cottage Industry that is thriving because...it sells a product that doesn't work? An unorthodox protocol that only a thousand other people are using every day and have been for decades due its effectiveness? Millions of recurring Clomid prescriptions written annually for TRT because...it doesn't work?

You're on an island. Do me a favor go troll somewhere else.

 

[CoastWatcher]

So there's a million bodybuilders on PCT taking Clomid and an AI so they do this because...they like wasting money? There's a huge thriving PCT Cottage Industry that is thriving because...it sells a product that doesn't work? An unorthodox protocol that only a thousand other people are using every day and have been for decades due its effectiveness? Millions of recurring Clomid prescriptions written annually for TRT because...it doesn't work?

You're on an island. Do me a favor go troll somewhere else.

I've reviewed what Vince Carter wrote, you weren't being trolled. We've seen lot of member fail to achieve their goals when on a Clomid protocol. That said, you may well see success. I hope so. Swinging you e2 into line may well help in that regard.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Wow.I have never known of anyone taking doses below 12.5 mg Clomid that have had your type of response (T=600). Good for you.

Your estradiol is not high for that total T. Your feelings of "getting easily pissed off or acting like a little girl" may have nothing to do with estradiol. Are those two feelings new to you?

Welcomed to ExcelMale.

 

[OMI100]

The Estradiol test as all tests were done by Quest. The high end of the range is 39. Normally my Estradiol is always in the ~20 range but when it gets to 46, test results or no test results I know its way too high based on how I feel, which is to say I feel like shit. Need to keep it in the 20's to 30's. For anyone taking a low dose AI below 1 mg how do you get the AI that low, by a compounding pharmacy or can you buy it somewhere in fractional amounts less than 1 mg?

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...-compunded-anastrozole-tabs&p=12738#post12738
https://www.********.com/Crestview-Pharmacy-123783144360752/
http://www.crestviewpharmacyfla.com/index.html
I no longer need an AI, but when I did I used this pharmacy.
As I recall they shipped to all 50 states.
My last order was for 0.07mg/Tab.
I was splitting tabs at the end as my requirement kept moving down.
A little goes a loooooong way and it is waaaaay to easy for someone to crash their E2 with too high a dose of an AI when starting use.....
You can call and ask them if they ship to your state and cost.

 

[Vince9272]

The "little girl" symptom has been written about extensively in PCT/bodybuilding forums and is usually attributed to high E2. The "easily pissed off" symptom could be argued is the higher testosterone and/or higher E2 together but when I was younger and my testosterone was in the 600 range I didn't feel like that which leads me to believe E2 is involved some way. Although Clomid has sides I don't think these are from Clomid per se but symptoms of the higher T and/or E2.

Also my T/E ratio, 600/40 = 15 but my understanding is the ratio should be higher, around 30. Also I've read on many PCT/bodybuilding forums that E2 should not be over 20 to 30 pg/dl (i think units are right) or you'll have problems some of which are included above. Also apparently too much E2 can hurt ED not help it.

I'm gonna try a low dose AI and see if that helps. I've read that even people on exogenous testosterone and/or HCG have the same problem, i.e. when their testosterone is restored to a decent level, e.g. 600 their E2 increases too much and they have to take an AI to control it so whether Clomid, HCG, exogenous testosterone, may be a common problem.

I'm also about 15 lbs overweight but I don't think 15 lbs would cause that much of an E2 increase.

Also I'm looking at this from a "PCT" perspective in that although my hypogonadism was due to a medical issue which has been fixed and I may at some point, just like someone going through PCT, not have to take anything at all, i.e. my hypothalamus and pituitary may realign. We know it occurs with PCT. Apparently the longer the cycle the longer the PCT so in my case it could take a while, several months or longer if it happens at all. Every couple of months I'll cycle off Clomid and see what happens. Even though the testicles can produce increased testosterone apparently they have to be exposed to the increased LH for a certain period of time before that realignment will occur.

Also because I'm not taking a huge amount of Clomid I may be closer to that threshold than say someone taking 25 mg of Clomid. I also think Clomid prescriptions may be written at doses higher than necessary. Keep in mind most Urologists have little experience with Clomid. My last prescription was written at 50 mg a day only because it comes in 50 mg tablets. Unfortunately you more or less have to tell the Urologist how to write the prescription. But having more on hand is OK in the event you lose some, etc. I have a feeling that many men may be taking too much Clomid and could probably receive the same benefit from a lower dose and a lower dose means less sides and cost.

 

[Esq]

During my (ultimately unsuccessful) clomid trial, my sensitive e2 shot up from about 34 to the mid 80s. That was on 12.5mg ED, so roughly twice the dose you’re on if you’re taking 6mg daily. I felt horrible with my e2 that high, and 0.25mg anastrozole EOD only brought sensitive e2 into the 60s. So, yes, clomid definitely can raise e2.

That said, if you’re only in the 40s, I’d be cautious using an AI. You could easily crash e2 entirely if you’re not careful, and I’ve read here over and over that low e2 is hell.

 

[Esq]

Also, I’d be careful reading too much into the ratios and “magic ranges” discussed on the bodybuilding forums. I think most here would agree that optimal e2 is a very personal thing. Some men feel better in the 20s and others in the 40s or even a bit higher. I felt terrible in the 80s, and now that I’m on TRT (with an AI) I don’t like the feel of low 20s either. I suspect my personal sweet spot is somewhere in the 30s.

 

[Diesel7213]

Will E2 fall naturally on its own when you stop Clomid?

 

[Esq]

Will E2 fall naturally on its own when you stop Clomid?

Mine did. I had labs done about 3 months after stopping clomid and the AI and sensitive e2 fell back down to around 30.