Calories and putting on muscle mass?

[FeelingLost]

I have read here on the forum you need to eat a surplus of about 500 calories over your recommended caloric intake based on your weight. For me that is 1850 + 500 = 2350
I have been doing this and stepping up my workouts at the gym for about 4 weeks and I am seeing my layer of fat increase. Basicly my fat is growing faster than my muscles and it is not just in my belly but over all body fat.

At what point do you stop the excess calories to lose the fat?

Also am I doing something wrong here are you suppost to be putting on fat during this process?

I am getting the extra calories by adding 3 egg whites 1 yoke(234) 1 whole avocado (235)

My main diet is
40% protein(steak, chicken breast, cod)
35% good fats(avocado, nuts, olive oil, smoked salmon)
20% carbs(salids all raw veggies) no starch like potatos
5% sugar( from fruit bananas, pears, grapefruit)

The only sugars I eat are what is naturally in the foods no added sugar.

Disclaimer: I have never been a bodybuilder or joined a gym until now just very active outdoors, mtn biking, hiking, climbing in the Rockies. So I am a complete noob when it comes to weight lifting. Using youtube I have learned most of the exersizes and I follow several weightlifting coaches that do weekly YT posts. I pick all my exersizes from them. I don't follow anyones complete program.

I have also learned the names for all the major muscle groups. So now you kind of know my lvl of expertise it not very much.

 

[Vince Carter]

cut that back to 250 extra calories, that, or you're not working out as hard as you think you are. Whats your protein intake? 1G per pound??? I would have probably looked at added protein for the calories

 

[Saul]

Hey feelinglost. Do you have ability to test your body fat? I find that a good indicator, along with weight, of progress over time. Sometimes my eyes deceive me and I think I should be bigger or I am not gaining, but I have noticed that over time my weight has gone up and my body fat has dropped or stayed the same. I assume that the extra weight is muscle even though when I look at myself either the gains are too small to notice over time or my eyes / brain or giving me incorrect feedback.

BTW, same thing happens to me sometimes where I am eating lots and working out hard and notice I am getting a bit extra body fat which hides definition. I try to lose the fat occasionally, or something happens where I end up losing it. I also try not to worry about it as long as I feel good.

As to working out hard, that is hard to measure and quantify. When you work out a muscle, is it sore the next day or the following day? When you work out a muscle, does it burn and hurt at your last rep, almost so much that you want to cry or the pain is too much? Can you hardly lift your arms when done? Do your arms shake when having a drink of water after you lift? IMO, some people gain muscle by just lifting a fork and others have to really adopt the phrase no pain no gain. For me, it is not easy to gain muscle and not easy to get fat.

 

[Vince]

Cut back on the 500 calories, if you get too slim you can always add more calories back in. The nice thing about being Slim you get to show off all your muscles and have nice abs.

 

[FeelingLost]

Hey feelinglost. Do you have ability to test your body fat? I find that a good indicator, along with weight, of progress over time. Sometimes my eyes deceive me and I think I should be bigger or I am not gaining, but I have noticed that over time my weight has gone up and my body fat has dropped or stayed the same. I assume that the extra weight is muscle even though when I look at myself either the gains are too small to notice over time or my eyes / brain or giving me incorrect feedback.

BTW, same thing happens to me sometimes where I am eating lots and working out hard and notice I am getting a bit extra body fat which hides definition. I try to lose the fat occasionally, or something happens where I end up losing it. I also try not to worry about it as long as I feel good.

As to working out hard, that is hard to measure and quantify. When you work out a muscle, is it sore the next day or the following day? When you work out a muscle, does it burn and hurt at your last rep, almost so much that you want to cry or the pain is too much? Can you hardly lift your arms when done? Do your arms shake when having a drink of water after you lift? IMO, some people gain muscle by just lifting a fork and others have to really adopt the phrase no pain no gain. For me, it is not easy to gain muscle and not easy to get fat.

At my gym they had this machine they called it an InBody I had to stand on it barefooted and hold to arms. I could feel electricity while it was taking measurements.
It spit out a paper full of number I have no idea what they mean. I also have some plastic calipers you pinch your belly fat with. It reads 13-14% if I average 3 measurement.

The machine says:
Total amount of water 112.0
Dry lean mass 40.6
Body Fat Mass 42.0
Weight 194.6

SMM 86.9
BFM 42.0

BMI 28.7
PFB 21.6
Then there is this segment lean analysis Trunk L/R arm and leg. with some numbers in pounds and %.

As for how hard I workout I go to the gym on Monday(3 hours 2 working out 1 in the spa) and take two days off from lifting. I am old I heal slow.
On Tuesday I ride my mtn bike ~15miles mostly flat this time of year. I wear a Garmin HR monitor and it guesses at your cal burn based on HR and type of activity. Wed no exersize rest day. Thursday repeat Monday.
My Garmin records 450 cal burn while weight lifting for 2 hours my HR runs between 91 and 105 my resting HR is 58 I always rest when I get to 105-107 at 91 I'll start back.
On my bike rides I burn 450-650 cal in 2 hours HR runs 90-110

My weight lifting is usually 4 sets of 16 reps and the last set is to failure no matter how many reps. On all sets the last 3-4 rep burn like all get out. I don't have a leg day and chest day I work everything in those 2 hours. I don't know enough or push this 64 year old body hard enough to require specific days yet. INJURY is always on my mind do to how slow I heal. It's not worth it to me.

I think I got to everyones questions?
Thank you all for you comments and ideas I am really enjoying the conversation. With this new info above please advise.

 

[Starplex]

Since you are fairly new to the iron, I would really recommend a good coach. At least to get you started out. For me I found that gains are much better if I'm following a fairly strict program that utilizes progression in both weight and reps. My favorite is a book I got off Amazon, "Growth Stimulus Training". After reading that book and using that program I joined his ******** group. I've learned a lot and he also does coaching through the internet, although I haven't purchased his coaching package.

I've also done Starting Strength 5 X 5's and several of Stopanni's programs. I always go back to the one above though and I always see growth when coming back to it. Good Luck and be Safe in there..

 

[blackebob]

As far as cardio, the only thing I get great results from is HIT. If I was on a stationary bike for two hours in a gym........

 

[FeelingLost]

As far as cardio, the only thing I get great results from is HIT. If I was on a stationary bike for two hours in a gym........

Oh no I go crazy on the gyms bikes. I ride dirt roads like this.



And Hiking trails liek this

 

[blackebob]

AWWE MAN not trail pics! Its 5 degrees outside, and slick.

Are you sure its not water weight? I have only been injecting a month, and it is what I am starting fight.

never mind you have been doing this long enough to know that.

 

[FeelingLost]

AWWE MAN not trail pics! Its 5 degrees outside, and slick.

Are you sure its not water weight? I have only been injecting a month, and it is what I am starting fight.

Yes I am already pass the water weight gain, oily skin, acne, honeymoon, Low E2(18) and High E2 62,
This is simple body fat coming back from eating more calories than I burn.

If I can't find out what I did wrong I just plan to go back to what I was doing before I read and tried this advice.
I've got the calorie counting down pretty good since I eat about the same thing every day.

In Colorado we haven't had winter yet.
Every week I have had 50 and 60 degree days to ride. It has only snowed twice at my house with any measurable amounts. Many
Ski resorts don't have all their lifts open.

 

[Matt Leiser]

Something that stands out to me is you state your protein intake is 40% of your calories. If I remember correctly based on your previously posted labs your fasting glucose is high. Your high protein intake could be converting excess to glucose which would keep your blood glucose high which would possibly explain gaining fat. My suggestion would be to shift to 20% protein and increase your healthy fats.

Do you monitor your blood sugar?

 

[FeelingLost]

Something that stands out to me is you state your protein intake is 40% of your calories. If I remember correctly based on your previously posted labs your fasting glucose is high. Your high protein intake could be converting excess to glucose which would keep your blood glucose high which would possibly explain gaining fat. My suggestion would be to shift to 20% protein and increase your healthy fats.

Do you monitor your blood sugar?

Hi Matt thank you for the suggestion. I do not monitor my blood sugar. Back in 2016 my A1C was 6.4 and for 8 months I went on a very strict diet and got my A1C down to 5.3 and cut my triglycerides from tripple digits to double I kind of quit worrying about being pre diabetic. I know last glucose was 118 I attributed that to I drink whiskey every evening 2-3 shots as a sleep aid. I know this is bad for me and I am researching other options to help clear my mind so I can fall asleep.

I will look into cutting my protein right now I eat between 1.6 and 2.2 grams/# of protein per day. I could cut that back to 1.2-1.6g/#.

Also for everyone following this thread. I did a bit of research last night on the theories of eating 400-600 extra calories.
It is called Lean Bulking and is an advanced eating technique for body builders not recommended for a beginner like myself.
For thoses interested in knowing more here's a pretty good explination start the video at 3:52

 

[Saul]

At my gym they had this machine they called it an InBody I had to stand on it barefooted and hold to arms. I could feel electricity while it was taking measurements.
It spit out a paper full of number I have no idea what they mean.

That is the same machine at my gym, but there are different models. I suggest taking a reading once per week and figuring out what it says your BF percentage is and then tracking it over time. It is a great tool to use to see if you are really putting on fat and if your weight gain is muscle.

I don't recall, did you have an issue with complex carbs in the past, such as oats, whole grain bread, sweet potatoes? Not that I am advocating my diet or saying what is best, but my calories are about 25% from protein, and the rest is veggies and complex carbs, nuts, whole grains, oats, cracked grain bread and some fruit but I am not perfect and simple carbs sneak in. I guess I just balance it all out but try to keep the protein high in that range. Kinda like the zone diet but more fats.

 

[FeelingLost]

snip...
I don't recall, did you have an issue with complex carbs in the past, such as oats, whole grain bread, sweet potatoes?

I don't think so. I don't eat sweat potatos, I only eat one piece of whole wheat bread for breakfast I put my fishoil on it. I did eat steel oats as a pre workout meal for complex carbs to burn because I was bonking my sugar mid workout. I quit the oats when I cut my carb and increased my good fats. I now use a hammer gel (liquid sugar, haha) to stop the sugar bonking.

 

[Milad Zadeh]

Yup Lean bulk is the only way to go in my opinion !!
1st figure out ur maintenance calories. How?
For 1 -2 weeks weigh yourself every morning as soon as you wake up before putting anything in your body not even water. Also log all ur food for that 1-2 week using a scale to measure everything that includes even vegetables. Yes they have calories !!!
If your weight doesn’t change during those 1-2 weeks then have a ballpark.
From that maintanace number add or subtract a modest 250 calories. Depending on your goal.
Your macros if bulking protein should b at 1g/lbs of body weight unless ur severely obese. Fats are good around 20-30% of ur total calories and rest in carbs. If ur cutting so calorie defecit then go up to 1.25-1.5gram of protein. Fats should b around 15-25% of the calories. Rest in carbs.
That’s all there’s to it

 

[FeelingLost]

Hi miladjuckel, thank you for the tips. I am only trying to put on a little muscle mass in my shoulders back chest and arms.
This 6 months of being fat at the gym so the other 6 month I can look big and cut isn't what I need.
If I was 20 something or even 30 something sure but I am 64

 

[hadleyvbaxendale]

I have read here on the forum you need to eat a surplus of about 500 calories over your recommended caloric intake based on your weight. For me that is 1850 + 500 = 2350
I have been doing this and stepping up my workouts at the gym for about 4 weeks and I am seeing my layer of fat increase. Basicly my fat is growing faster than my muscles and it is not just in my belly but over all body fat.

At what point do you stop the excess calories to lose the fat?

Also am I doing something wrong here are you suppost to be putting on fat during this process?

I am getting the extra calories by adding 3 egg whites 1 yoke(234) 1 whole avocado (235)

My main diet is
40% protein(steak, chicken breast, cod)
35% good fats(avocado, nuts, olive oil, smoked salmon)
20% carbs(salids all raw veggies) no starch like potatos
5% sugar( from fruit bananas, pears, grapefruit)

The only sugars I eat are what is naturally in the foods no added sugar.

Disclaimer: I have never been a bodybuilder or joined a gym until now just very active outdoors, mtn biking, hiking, climbing in the Rockies. So I am a complete noob when it comes to weight lifting. Using youtube I have learned most of the exersizes and I follow several weightlifting coaches that do weekly YT posts. I pick all my exersizes from them. I don't follow anyones complete program.

I have also learned the names for all the major muscle groups. So now you kind of know my lvl of expertise it not very much.

If you want to lift iron (I'm 72 and have been lifting since 22) to get into shape by building muscle and losing fat, then just eat the way you used to eat before lifting (don't add calories if you are older than 30), and start lifting. A good book for the beginner is Starting Strength, 3rd Ed, which has the basic lifts for strength. Don't worry about what you weigh, since muscle weighs more than fat, and fat takes up more room than muscle: as you get stronger, you will have strong, dense muscles, and you will be smaller.

 

[FeelingLost]

If you want to lift iron (I'm 72 and have been lifting since 22) to get into shape by building muscle and losing fat, then just eat the way you used to eat before lifting (don't add calories if you are older than 30), and start lifting. A good book for the beginner is Starting Strength, 3rd Ed, which has the basic lifts for strength. Don't worry about what you weigh, since muscle weighs more than fat, and fat takes up more room than muscle: as you get stronger, you will have strong, dense muscles, and you will be smaller.

Hi Hadley, Wow 72 and still working out, you give me hope my friend. Congrats man and thank you for the food and book tip. I will go check it out.

 

[mpayton66]

If the machine that you used to check your bodyfat was a BIA machine, they're terribly inaccurate. Use this chart instead:



Calorie partitioning is poor (meaning too much of your calorie excess becomes fat and too little becomes muscle) when you're more than 12-13% bodyfat. I suggest dieting to a lower bodyfat and THEN lean bulking (~200 calories extra per day and gaining ~1/2 lb every week).

 

[FeelingLost]

If the machine that you used to check your bodyfat was a BIA machine, they're terribly inaccurate. Use this chart instead:



Calorie partitioning is poor (meaning too much of your calorie excess becomes fat and too little becomes muscle) when you're more than 12-13% bodyfat. I suggest dieting to a lower bodyfat and THEN lean bulking (~200 calories extra per day and gaining ~1/2 lb every week).

Hi mpayton, thanks for the chart. Yes I don't trust those machines either. As a retired aerospace engineer I know a bit about electronic testing devices. This using voltage to measure body capacitance is a leap.

Using your picture what is your best guess for me. 20-25%?
I have put .25-.50" layer of fat on since I started this +500 calories over my base of 1850 four weeks ago.




Belly Track pict from 4 weeks ago. All my belly Fat Track picts are taken on Gym day which is every 3rd day in the morning after breakfast and I am not flexing.

Here's a pict before I added the 500 cal surplus.
I have put on a little muscle in the shoulders and arms compared to this last pict which is a month old.