Blood test results - Your opinions please

[seeker]

Hi guys,

I am interested in your opinions.

About me:

34
Diet is good
Sleep is good
Stress is average-low
Training with weights 3 times per week

I have one testicle that sits higher up than the other, as if it only partially dropped.

For a long time I have suffered from depression and low t-like symptoms (long before taking steroids)

I used steroids last year in order to compete in bodybuilding contests.

(decision wasn't taken lightly)

(I have also competed naturally 7 times before this)

I was using 250mg testosterone proprionate per week.

(which is very low by industry standards but I wanted to minimise any potential damage to myself)

(I felt like a different person whilst taking testosterone)

I used 500iu hcg 2-3 times per week throughout.

The was for 6 months.

My PCT was:

1000iu HCG EOD for 20 days (10 shots)
20mg nolvadex ED for 30 days
50mg clomid ED for 30 days

I had a pre steroid cycle test as a reference...

• Total Testosterone - 20.5 nmol/L (normal range 8.4 – 28.7) (591ng/dL)
• Free Testosterone – 0.365 nmol/L (normal range 0.21 – 0.70) = 1.78%
  
• Sex Hormone Binding Globulin is 45 nmol/L (range 17 – 66)

I had my test levels checked when I was on 250mg test per week. My test came back at 1254 ng/dL. I felt amazing despite training 20 hours per week and strategically starving myself to unhealthy levels of bodyfat.

3 months after I completed my PCT I got blood work done.

Here are the results...

TESTOSTERONE 14.35 nmol/L (7.60-31.40) (414 ng/dL)


FREE-TESTOSTERONE(CALCULATED) *0.255 nmol/L (0.30-1.00)


SHBG 43.16 nmol/L (16.00-55.00)


17-BETA OESTRADIOL 36.98 pmol/L (0.00-191.99)


LUTEINISING HORMONE 3.35 IU/L (1.70-8.60)


FOLLICLE STIM. HORMONE 2.38 IU/L (1.50-12.40)


D.H.E.A. SULPHATE 5.380 umol/L (0.44-13.40)


CORTISOL 440.200 nmol/l (133.00-537.00)


THYROID STIMULATING HORMONE 2.19 mIU/L (0.27 - 4.20)


FREE THYROXINE 16.41 pmol/L (12.00 - 22.00)


TOTAL THYROXINE(T4) 78.1 nmol/L (59.00 - 154.00)



FREE T3 3.74 pmol/L (3.10 - 6.80)

-------

Before taking any steroids = 591 ng/dL

During 250mg pw test steroid cycle = 1254 ng/dL

After= 414 ng/dL

I know 414ng/dL is within the normal range but I have every symptom of low t and my free test is below the normal range.

This is why I'm here, to find out if TRT is worth investigating.

Thanks guys.

 

[madman]

Hi guys,

I am interested in your opinions.

About me:

34
Diet is good
Sleep is good
Stress is average-low
Training with weights 3 times per week

I have one testicle that sits higher up than the other, as if it only partially dropped.

For a long time I have suffered from depression and low t-like symptoms (long before taking steroids)

I used steroids last year in order to compete in bodybuilding contests.

(decision wasn't taken lightly)

(I have also competed naturally 7 times before this)

I was using 250mg testosterone proprionate per week.

(which is very low by industry standards but I wanted to minimise any potential damage to myself)

(I felt like a different person whilst taking testosterone)

I used 500iu hcg 2-3 times per week throughout.

The was for 6 months.

My PCT was:

1000iu HCG EOD for 20 days (10 shots)
20mg nolvadex ED for 30 days
50mg clomid ED for 30 days

I had a pre steroid cycle test as a reference...

• Total Testosterone - 20.5 nmol/L (normal range 8.4 – 28.7) (591ng/dL)
• Free Testosterone – 0.365 nmol/L (normal range 0.21 – 0.70) = 1.78%
  
• Sex Hormone Binding Globulin is 45 nmol/L (range 17 – 66)

I had my test levels checked when I was on 250mg test per week. My test came back at 1254 ng/dL. I felt amazing despite training 20 hours per week and strategically starving myself to unhealthy levels of bodyfat.

3 months after I completed my PCT I got blood work done.

Here are the results...

TESTOSTERONE 14.35 nmol/L (7.60-31.40) (414 ng/dL)


FREE-TESTOSTERONE(CALCULATED) *0.255 nmol/L (0.30-1.00)


SHBG 43.16 nmol/L (16.00-55.00)


17-BETA OESTRADIOL 36.98 pmol/L (0.00-191.99)


LUTEINISING HORMONE 3.35 IU/L (1.70-8.60)


FOLLICLE STIM. HORMONE 2.38 IU/L (1.50-12.40)


D.H.E.A. SULPHATE 5.380 umol/L (0.44-13.40)


CORTISOL 440.200 nmol/l (133.00-537.00)


THYROID STIMULATING HORMONE 2.19 mIU/L (0.27 - 4.20)


FREE THYROXINE 16.41 pmol/L (12.00 - 22.00)


TOTAL THYROXINE(T4) 78.1 nmol/L (59.00 - 154.00)



FREE T3 3.74 pmol/L (3.10 - 6.80)

-------

Before taking any steroids = 591 ng/dL

During 250mg pw test steroid cycle = 1254 ng/dL

After= 414 ng/dL

I know 414ng/dL is within the normal range but I have every symptom of low t and my free test is below the normal range.

This is why I'm here, to find out if TRT is worth investigating.

Thanks guys.

Your endogenous testosterone production may take a lot longer than 3 months post pct to fully rebound. No need to jump on trt until you look into a restart through a doctor who specializes in trt especially post testosterone/aas use whether hcg/clomid protocol prescribed by someone that has experience in these situations.

 

[seeker]

Your endogenous testosterone production may take a lot longer than 3 months post pct to fully rebound. No need to jump on trt until you look into a restart through a doctor who specializes in trt especially post testosterone/aas use whether hcg/clomid protocol prescribed by someone that has experience in these situations.

Thank you for your view, I appreciate it.

 

[madman]

Thank you for your view, I appreciate it.

This will give you a deeper understanding of how aas/testosterone abuse effect the hpta and treatment for recovery!

http://dopingjouren.se/Dopingjouren_EN_sept2013.pdf

 

[seeker]

This will give you a deeper understanding of how aas/testosterone abuse effect the hpta and treatment for recovery!

http://dopingjouren.se/Dopingjouren_EN_sept2013.pdf

You're making assumptions about what I do or do not know already about the AAS, the HPTA and recovery.

Using 250mg testosterone per week, whilst monitoring blood work, in order to compete in a sport at an international level hardly amounts to abuse.

I'd prefer some more helpful, professional opinions.

 

[CoastWatcher]

You're making assumptions about what I do or do not know already about the AAS, the HPTA and recovery.

Using 250mg testosterone per week, whilst monitoring blood work, in order to compete in a sport at an international level hardly amounts to abuse.

I'd prefer some more helpful, professional opinions.

What Madman posted was offered in good faith. To an extent, all of us are "making assumptions" when we discuss the issues that members present. It's always done with the best intentions and in the hope that the thoughts may be of assistance.

 

[seeker]

What Madman posted was offered in good faith. To an extent, all of us are "making assumptions" when we discuss the issues that members present. It's always done with the best intentions and in the hope that the thoughts may be of assistance.

Maybe everyone on this forum is doing their best to help. But why should people make assumptions when they can ask questions?

Posting an anti-doping booklet doesn't help me. There is very little information contained in the booklet concerning my original post. There is not even mention of restarting the HPTA with hcg/clomid. I wonder if madman has even read this anti-doping booklet, which is meant to give me a "deeper understanding".

Saying "no need to jump on trt" is also another massive assumption, an assumption that I actually want to have to stick needles in myself for the rest of my life. That wasn't what I asked.

Hopefully, someone can come up with a reply that is actually going to help me make an INFORMED decision about what (if anything) I should do about this situation.

 

[madman]

Maybe everyone on this forum is doing their best to help. But why should people make assumptions when they can ask questions?

Posting an anti-doping booklet doesn't help me. There is very little information contained in the booklet concerning my original post. There is not even mention of restarting the HPTA with hcg/clomid. I wonder if madman has even read this anti-doping booklet, which is meant to give me a "deeper understanding".

Saying "no need to jump on trt" is also another massive assumption, an assumption that I actually want to have to stick needles in myself for the rest of my life. That wasn't what I asked.

Hopefully, someone can come up with a reply that is actually going to help me make an INFORMED decision about what (if anything) I should do about this situation.

Forgive me seeker I apologize and in no way meant that I felt you were abusing testosterone. You have to understand that the majority of trt patients are prescribed anywhere from 100-150mg/week to reach optimal physiological testosterone levels and yes there are some whom need 200mg/week but it is far from common and most would consider 200+mg/week to be a light steroid cycle as that dosage would put many into the supra-physiological range which is not healthy in the long run. The booklet was just to give you insight on how the excess use of testosterone/aas can effect physiology and the article I meant to post with that one that would give you a better understanding of alternative options before jumping into trt was this one https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4650464/ which I had thought was posted up already. Again I am sorry if I offended you in any way as that was not my intention.

 

[madman]

What Madman posted was offered in good faith. To an extent, all of us are "making assumptions" when we discuss the issues that members present. It's always done with the best intentions and in the hope that the thoughts may be of assistance.

Thanks CW!

 

[user_joe]

It would seem to me you have all the experience to make a decision. Your total testosterone is not super low and wasn't at all before injecting. However, free T was pretty low. You know what you felt like under each scenario. You just have to decide what you want to do in my opinion. To say 250/wk is not TRT is very conservative in my opinion. I'm positive I'm in the minority saying that on here, but you can run that dose forever if your health markers such as lipids, BP, and hematocrit are ok at those levels. Most docs are going to say 200 is plenty though, and I would agree. You just need the right doc if that's the route you choose.

 

[JPB]

You probably just need to run Clomid longer

 

[madman]

It would seem to me you have all the experience to make a decision. Your total testosterone is not super low and wasn't at all before injecting. However, free T was pretty low. You know what you felt like under each scenario. You just have to decide what you want to do in my opinion. To say 250/wk is not TRT is very conservative in my opinion. I'm positive I'm in the minority saying that on here, but you can run that dose forever if your health markers such as lipids, BP, and hematocrit are ok at those levels. Most docs are going to say 200 is plenty though, and I would agree. You just need the right doc if that's the route you choose.

You are right that one could run that dose long term if all health markers stay in range but 250mg/week is not a trt dose as for the majority of people it would elevate there testosterone levels into the supra-physiological range and the goal of trt is to get patients levels into the optimal physiological range to improve overall low t symptoms whether that be mid-normal for some or high normal for others. One does not need to be in the supra-physiological range to notice improvements in symptoms from low t. Why would it make any sense that the human body functions optimally beyond the high end of physiological levels. Thyroid/adrenals start to take a beating when test levels are constantly elevated at extremely high levels. All hormones need to be in balance as the body prefers homeostasis.

 

[seeker]

Forgive me seeker I apologize and in no way meant that I felt you were abusing testosterone. You have to understand that the majority of trt patients are prescribed anywhere from 100-150mg/week to reach optimal physiological testosterone levels and yes there are some whom need 200mg/week but it is far from common and most would consider 200+mg/week to be a light steroid cycle as that dosage would put many into the supra-physiological range which is not healthy in the long run. The booklet was just to give you insight on how the excess use of testosterone/aas can effect physiology and the article I meant to post with that one that would give you a better understanding of alternative options before jumping into trt was this one https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4650464/ which I had thought was posted up already. Again I am sorry if I offended you in any way as that was not my intention.

It's ok madman I know everyone is doing their best to help each other out here on this forum.

 

[seeker]

Something to consider, thanks JPB.

 

[seeker]

Thanks user_joe, I think 250/wk is on the high end from what I can gather and my BP was starting to creep up a little. But everyone is different I guess.