BIG QUESTION MARK !

[Student414]

Hello everyone

I been with 500 mg test a week for long time..After I readed side effects of it from blood clotting and increasing bad cholesterol I lower it since March I think...as I lower my dose to trt dose around 180 mg a week.. After months ..I lost most of muscles and I start gain body fat and weight ...I gained about 10 pounds...no matter how hard I diet..some of u saw my diet questions and my struggles..the thing that wonder me..as I know many guys when they come of high dose of test they get smaller.....why me I gained weight?? ..thanks all

 

[Systemlord]

I been with 500 mg test a week for long time..After I readed side effects of it from blood clotting and increasing bad cholesterol I lower it since March I think...

People still get blood clots not on exogenous testosterone. There’s no data supporting TRT or exogenous testosterone “causing” blood clots. If someone got a clot on TRT, there’s another reason for it, other than TRT.

 

[Systemlord]

why me I gained weight??

The reasons can be numerous, thyroid, vitamin or mineral deficiency, etc.

 

[Student414]

People still get blood clots not on exogenous testosterone. There’s no data supporting TRT “causing” blood clots. If someone got a clot on TRT, there’s another reason for it, other than TRT.

Even at 500 mg test a week?

 

[Systemlord]

Even at 500 mg test a week?

No evidence, none! The problem is most people get their information from the media, where sensationalism grabs headlines!

The people that run the stories never check their facts, they just run with it.

If you need that much test to be leaner, to lose weight, you’re compensating for something else.

So without lab testing, it would be silly to inquire what might be causing your weight gain, other than discussions about your diet.

 

[Student414]

The reasons can be numerous, thyroid, vitamin or mineral deficiency, etc.

I took all supplements..but my muscles lost and I gained fat...maybe thyroid I will make test for it..

 

[Systemlord]

I took all supplements..but my muscles lost and I gained fat...maybe thyroid I will make test for it..

TSH, Free T3, Free T4, Thyroglobulin antibodies (TgAb) and Thyroid peroxidase antibodies (TPOAb).

 

[Vince]

Hello everyone

I been with 500 mg test a week for long time..After I readed side effects of it from blood clotting and increasing bad cholesterol I lower it since March I think...as I lower my dose to trt dose around 180 mg a week.. After months ..I lost most of muscles and I start gain body fat and weight ...I gained about 10 pounds...no matter how hard I diet..some of u saw my diet questions and my struggles..the thing that wonder me..as I know many guys when they come of high dose of test they get smaller.....why me I gained weight?? ..thanks all

I would love to see your labs at 500 mg of testosterone a week.

 

[Systemlord]

I would love to see your labs at 500 mg of testosterone a week.

There’s some evidence of cardiac remodeling, left ventricular hypertrophy with very high levels of Free T.

 

[Student414]

I would love to see your labs at 500 mg of testosterone a week.

Sadly I never did labs

 

[Student414]

There’s some evidence of cardiac remodeling, left ventricular hypertrophy with very high levels of Free T.

So high levels of free test cause heart problems?

 

[Cataceous]

... There’s no data supporting TRT or exogenous testosterone “causing” blood clots. ...

Another confident and simplistic pronouncement. In fact there are data suggesting the association, e.g. here, here and here. While there are other studies not finding the association, it does appear likely that there are at least high-risk subgroups. As most men starting TRT are not tested for these conditions, it's irresponsible to imply that TRT can never precipitate blood clots.

 

[Systemlord]

Another confident and simplistic pronouncement. In fact there are data suggesting the association, e.g. here, here and here. While there are other studies not finding the association, it does appear likely that there are at least high-risk subgroups. As most men starting TRT are not tested for these conditions, it's irresponsible to imply that TRT can never precipitate blood clots.

I should have stated, no concrete proof TRT causes clots. If we go by the Traverse study, the largest study to date, accounting for the lack of screening for hemophilia, no difference in clots in the “high risk” TRT groups for 5 years when compared with placebo.

 

[RobRoy]

Another confident and simplistic pronouncement. In fact there are data suggesting the association, e.g. here, here and here. While there are other studies not finding the association, it does appear likely that there are at least high-risk subgroups. As most men starting TRT are not tested for these conditions, it's irresponsible to imply that TRT can never precipitate blood clots.

No, it's not. It's actually the truth. Testosterone does not cause blood clots and it never has an 85 years of use. Do young men with high testosterone levels get blood clots? Testosterone has never been shown to cause blood clots in any randomized controlled trial to date. When you evaluate the cases of blood clots on testosterone, you find that the men had an undiagnosed clotting disorder. Those men were going to clot anyway. The simple observation that literally tens of thousands of men at this very minute are abusing testosterone for performance enhancement reasons and yet aren't experiencing an epidemic of blood clots. You yourself used the word "association". Association is not causation my friend. So you can continue to think that the world is flat when it is actually round, and you can continue to think that testosterone causes blood clots in men without clotting disorders, but it does not. It is irresponsible for you to propagate a false narrative. The narrative of it might cause clots at this point is the equivalent of saying there might be men on Mars. Well, there might be, but there's not. So we can provide you with literally hundreds of studies utilizing testosterone in men, and it never caused blood clots. But how about you producing just one where it did and not an association but actually a proven causation. In other words, a randomized controlled trial, looking at primary endpoints, not tertiary endpoints.

 

[Cataceous]

... When you evaluate the cases of blood clots on testosterone, you find that the men had an undiagnosed clotting disorder. Those men were going to clot anyway. ...

Having a predisposition does not mean you're going to clot anyway. The data do not rule out testosterone therapy as a precipitating factor, and the authors of the cited study assert causality: "... testosterone therapy (TT) interacted with thrombophilia–hypofibrinolysis, leading to venous thromboembolism (VTE)." In support, "The potency of the prothrombotic stimulus of exogenous TT is testified to by the finding that 11 men with thrombophilia sustained a first thrombotic event on TT, and while continuing TT, despite adequate anticoagulation, sustained a second VTE. Moreover, 6 of these 11 men, remaining on TT and still anticoagulated, had a third VTE." Further, "Only 1 of the 67 TT patients had a thrombotic event preceding TT, so that using history of thrombosis in lieu of measurement of thrombophilia would not be predictive in predicting the risk of thrombosis in patients about to receive TT."

Asking for an "epidemic of blood clots" as evidence is disingenuous. You're aware that the absolute incidence of these events is low. Even a five-fold increase in risk would not result in an epidemic. Handwaving about "hundreds of studies" gets you nowhere. You're aware that no quality RCT has been done, which contributes to the continuing uncertainty. My take is that if you're not in one of the high-risk groups and your testosterone dosing is physiological then the issue is not worth losing sleep over. Of course the OP mentioned taking 500 mg TC per week, and his predisposition to clotting is unknown.