Total Testosterone #s based on study and muscle growth question?

[Riptide]

Hi everyone,
This is my first time posting but I've been poking around for a few months--I'm about to have my first consult with Defy medical and so I've been trying to educate myself on what is obviously a large decision with lifetime implications (hopefully mostly good!)

Anyhow, I'm sure some of you are familiar with this study: https://www.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpendo.2001.281.6.e1172

Which gave healthy young males 25mg, 50mg, 125mg, 300mg, and 600mg of Test E respectively (12 men per group) weekly for 20 weeks. They were instructed not to engage in weight training or moderate/intense cardio. After 20 weeks the 125mg group gained 3.4 kg of lean mass, the 300mg group gained 5.2 kg and the 600mg group gained 7.9 kg. Okay, probably not surprising to many folks at this point...

What has me perplexed is the average total testosterone of each group of 12 on these doses. They say at 125mg a week the mean nadir tt was 542 ng/dl , and at 300mg 1345 ng/dl. I'm curious because from what I've read 125mg pushes most men into upper ranges of test levels and 300mg would be in AAS supraphysical ranges by more than a 100 points or so.

Second, a gain in the 125mg group of about 7.5 pounds over 20 weeks with NO weight training seems incredibly high doesn't it? These were healthy young men before the test so we can assume an average test of upper 600s at least before right? So why then at 125mg with no exercise are they growing so rapidly?

Do you guys think the TT numbers are misleading because the nadir of a 1 per week injection protocol could see dramatically lower numbers than at the peak a day after injection?

What I'm getting at is I've seen over and over repeated that TRT doesn't help you build muscle much--certainly not if you are like me with low/average levels, and 125mg is often seen as a starting "replacement" dose--but then this study suggests that even on low trt doses with trough levels in the mid 500s (low average) these 12 men averaged 7.5 pounds in lean muscle without working out. I can't put that much muscle on in a year training 4x a week eating like a bodybuilder right now...so to do that in 5 months without working out...It almost seems too good to be true?

Thanks for your thoughts, just very curious if your experience has any correlation to these figures!

 

[busgalloway]

It's not misleading, it's pretty normal to have blood draws at the trough to get a reflection of how low testosterone will get throughout the week so that it stays over that amount. The maximum testosterone value you get in a week isn't a good indication of how strong the therapy is, but rather how often you have elevated levels. The area under the curve if you will. A good doctor is gonna design your protocol by choosing the type of testosterone (some have different half lives), dosage and frequency so that your testosterone fluctuations aren't too wild so that you get benefit from the hormones and minimize side effects.

Post injection blood draws are sometimes done though to better understand how high someone's testosterone spikes the day of or after injection, if side effects are strong and the doctor wants more information.

Also when it comes to building muscle, it becomes easier but you are not gonna get really muscular unless you are dedicated to healthy eating and have a good workout routine. TRT helps you become more capable and encourages you to live a healthier lifestyle, and you definitely get body composition changes that people will notice and compliment you on even if you dont do much (took me by surprise to be called more masculine by multiple people), but you will still look more or less similar if you don't put in the effort.