Best TRT Protocol For Me To Start?

[Elevated1]

Hey guys so I had low T and decided to start HCG monotherapy to see if that would work for me. I did it for 6 weeks with eventually getting up to 1000IU EOD. My test went from 9.6 to 14.3 (nmol/L) which is decent but no where near where I wanted to be and my symptoms were still there and I was super moody. I decided to come off.

My doc is very good and told me that's why he recommended me starting T instead of HCG. Well then he needed my levels to go back to shitty so he could prescribe it to me. So it's been 4 weeks since the last HCG injection and my results are the following. Holy cow, what happened. Did the HCG shut my HPTA and this is my system trying to bounce back still?

I'm I'm Canada so this is in nmol/L

Total Testosterone 7.4 - 8.4-28.8
Free Test 204 - 115-577
Bioavailable Test 4.8 - 2.7-13.5
SHBG 15.4 10-70

I definitely feel like crap but didn't know it was going to be this low. I'm getting my prescription for cypionate from him next week. What dose should I start on? 50mg twice a week seems to be the standard to start no? I also suffer from mild anxiety/OCD so I've seen people recommend daily injections so the peaks and drops aren't so noticeable. However obviously twice a week would be ideal.

I also want to have another baby within the next year and so I would need to start HCG again sometime near that time.

What do you guys think? You guys know more about what the free, bioavailable and shbg mean in correlation with all the numbers.

Thanks

 

[Cataceous]

It does appear that using hCG suppressed your HPTA. Kind of a shame to suppress it again just as it starts to recover. Do you have access to Natesto or another testosterone nasal gel product there? I'd suggest trying that before full blown TRT. The nasal gels let you experience periods of higher testosterone while your HPTA continues to function. This would automatically preserve your fertility.

Regarding TRT, it's true that 50 mg testosterone cypionate twice a week is a reasonable starting protocol. In this case it would be common for peak serum testosterone to be about 50% higher than trough testosterone. Ideally the dose is adjusted so that the peaks and troughs remain physiological. As the injection frequency is increased the differences between peak and trough serum levels will be reduced, and for most men will become virtually negligible with daily injections.

Your SHBG is on the low side. There's some anecdotal evidence that men with low SHBG fare better with reduced variation in serum testosterone. Keep this in mind in case you have problems with twice-weekly injections.

Many men find it helpful to use low doses of hCG with TRT all the time, with some experiencing better mood, libido, etc. It's worth experimenting to find out if you can gain these benefits. If you don't like it then you can simply wait until you need it for fertility. Using hCG with TRT increases your chances of maintaining/regaining fertility, but doesn't guarantee it. A small number of men may permanently lose fertility with TRT. If you don't want to gamble then you might freeze some sperm before starting TRT.

 

[ivkonst2017]

In this case it would be common for peak serum testosterone to be about 50% higher than trough testosterone.

Many men experience very stable levels on twice per week injections, me included on enanthate when it is supposed to have 1-2 days shorter half life of cyp. So its best to start twice per week and go more often only if needed - for example IF after 6-8 weeks feeling different day to.day in relation the injection schedule

 

[Cataceous]

Many men experience very stable levels on twice per week injections, me included on enanthate when it is supposed to have 1-2 days shorter half life of cyp. ...

Most of the anecdotal reports I've seen point to the nontrivial peak-trough differences expected based on the published research. Have you sampled a single injection cycle at multiple time points in order to reach your conclusion of "stable levels"? And the "many men" you refer to have also?

 

[Elevated1]

Can we get back on track please? So start HCG right away with TRT or wait until we're going to try for a baby? 50mg cypionate twice a week to start ? Where should I pin? I've heard all sorts of areas.

 

[Systemlord]

So start HCG right away with TRT or wait until we're going to try for a baby?

Yes.

50mg cypionate twice a week to start ?

Since you are starting out on HCG, I would inject a lower than normal dosage since you're on HCG which will add a little bit of testosterone on top of your TRT dosage.

So 80mg testosterone cypionate split up ED/EOD and HCG 250-350 iu EOD is my recommendation.

I pinned in my shoulders and quads, but I had to pin in the middle of my quads because I'm sensitive the closer I get to my hips or knees.

 

[ivkonst2017]

Most of the anecdotal reports I've seen point to the nontrivial peak-trough differences expected based on the published research. Have you sampled a single injection cycle at multiple time points in order to reach your conclusion of "stable levels"? And the "many men" you refer to have also?

Ive sampled myself enough times and again instead of focusing on dry research pay attention to the most important words I mentioned - FEELING stable, not having stable blood levels.
I dont see need to inject more often if you feel stable no matter the fuck what numbers are written on a piece of paper

 

[ivkonst2017]

Can we get back on track please? So start HCG right away with TRT or wait until we're going to try for a baby? 50mg cypionate twice a week to start ? Where should I pin? I've heard all sorts of areas.

With your fertility situation Im not sure, but usually starting HCG together with test in the general case is a mistake.

You dont know if you feel fucked up which of the two affects in what way. Usually starting any hormone should be done in isolation.

Bear in mind many men cannot handle HCG. Some like me can handle up to 700 ui per week. Usually the gold standard is to introduce HCG 6-8 weeks after starting when you are stable in your TRT protocol.

Even if fertility is so critical Im not sure you will loose something of it if you wait 6-8 weeks in the long run. I think this is strictly genetic and nobody can give you an answer.

 

[Cataceous]

... pay attention to the most important words I mentioned - FEELING stable, not having stable blood levels.
...

It would be fine if you'd actually said that. But you specifically said "stable levels", which is not the case when the injection interval represents about 70% of the drug's half-life.

 

[ivkonst2017]

It would be fine if you'd actually said that. But you specifically said "stable levels", which is not the case when the injection interval represents about 70% of the drug's half-life.

I said I had stable levels which is a fact

But also I said:

"for example IF after 6-8 weeks feeling different day to.day in relation the injection schedule"

I think its very individual for everyone what blood stability will maintain on twice per week and how will feel. I know some people need more often, but also I believe its good we start the lowest frequency that makes sens for the drug and has a good chance of success . In the long run it does matter

 

[Cataceous]

I said I had stable levels which is a fact
...

It never ends. You said "many men" including you, which is an unsupported generalization, and in contradiction to the known pharmacokinetics of these esters. Let's just agree on a different generalization, which is that most men probably would not have problems with the serum variation of twice-weekly injections, and it represents a good starting protocol.

 

[Elevated1]

With your fertility situation Im not sure, but usually starting HCG together with test in the general case is a mistake.

You dont know if you feel fucked up which of the two affects in what way. Usually starting any hormone should be done in isolation.

Bear in mind many men cannot handle HCG. Some like me can handle up to 700 ui per week. Usually the gold standard is to introduce HCG 6-8 weeks after starting when you are stable in your TRT protocol.

Even if fertility is so critical Im not sure you will loose something of it if you wait 6-8 weeks in the long run. I think this is strictly genetic and nobody can give you an answer.

Yah I was going bat shit crazy on 1000IU EOD. Seems like to me things affect me mentally the most since I already suffer from mental health to begin with. I think your right on starting TRT solo at first twice a week at 50mg.

Will 30 Guage needles work? Also best injection sites ?

 

[ivkonst2017]

Will 30 Guage needles work? Also best injection sites ?

If I state ny opinion we will go in another debate with @Cataceous but anyway.

I would start IM, 27g 3/4 needles ventroglutr
e and delts. Im not a fan of sub q injections in my experience they dont work well for everyone. However they are easier, less painful and if you optimise yourself on IM you can try sub q that is my advice, but you can do whatever you like.

Some people like shallow IM with 1/2 inch needle. in my opinion this works as IM only if your are very lean, otherwise you may do sub q.

 

[Elevated1]

Thank you!

 

[Fortunate]

Yah I was going bat shit crazy on 1000IU EOD. Seems like to me things affect me mentally the most since I already suffer from mental health to begin with. I think your right on starting TRT solo at first twice a week at 50mg.

Will 30 Guage needles work? Also best injection sites ?

I would guess that with high dose hCG, your estrogen levels may have shot up. That could explain feeling shitty. Did you check it?

 

[ivkonst2017]

I would guess that with high dose hCG, your estrogen levels may have shot up. That could explain feeling shitty. Did you check it?

With people who feel shitty of HCG usually it is not as simple as high e2.

I have discussed this with my provider why some folks feel terrible on any amount of HCG and why some like me need some otherwise feel terrible. For me it brings positives and negatives and thays why I need very specific amount, on even a 200 more weekly the negatives get too much.

We went through a few theories why the responses are so diversed, but at the end we concluded it is not yet known.

 

[Fortunate]

With people who feel shitty of HCG usually it is not as simple as high e2.

I have discussed this with my provider why some folks feel terrible on any amount of HCG and why some like me need some otherwise feel terrible. For me it brings positives and negatives and thays why I need very specific amount, on even a 200 more weekly the negatives get too much.

We went through a few theories why the responses are so diversed, but at the end we concluded it is not yet known.

There are a lot of potential reasons why people might feel shitty. High E2 is only one of them, but it should be considered.

When I was on hCG monotherapy years ago, I developed nipple sensitivity and really bad acne, both of which were attributed with aromatization from high dose hCG.