Asking for some advice/tips, father starting TRT (?)

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Questy

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Hello. I came here to ask some advice/opinions on this certain situation. It is actually about my father who is 60 years old of age. He has been complaining about fatigue, some depression and host of other symptoms (that usually might pop up as your age goes up) and first his GP prescribed him antidepressant (SSRI). He took it for about 3 weeks and quit because of it worsened his sleep quality and generally didn't really like the idea of taking that. So I have been dealing with my own (partially hormonal) issues in past so I have some knowledge on stuff like this. So I asked him to ask his doctor to test his testosterone levels. And turns out they came back quite low.

His LH levels were mid-range, total testosterone was 11 nmol/l (which converts to 317 ng/dl) with SHBG of 24 nmol/l so his free testosterone was quite low which would explain his symptoms, he also carries quite a bit of fat in his midsection (otherwise normal, fairly tall and skinny body). His other bloodwork like liver enzymes, kidney function, PSA levels etc. were normal. Blood glucose is in the pre-diabetic range but it has not changed for several years. He also always has had his red blood cells at the very low end of reference ranges, still in range though. So I wrote him a list of commonly done bloodwork that is done pre-TRT to request from his doctor.

Now apparently his GP has agreed to a 3 month "trial" of TRT with Testosterone Gel because he agrees his T levels are low. Now I am no expert here but isn't that a bit rushed, I dont know the full story yet but I guess his GP didn't want to check anything else now pre-TRT but to do some labs in like month or two after this "trial". Only thing he did agree to test BEFORE the teraphy was his estrogen, E2 levels. But there was several other blood work on the list. He has not started it yet but I think has the prescription. I have yet to have asked did his doctor mention possible estrogen control etc.

Other worth mentioning things are that he has had triple bypass surgery few years ago after suffering a minor heart attack. So he takes quite a few medications for blood pressure, blood thinner, cholesterol medication.. One thing I also noticed that he takes as prescribed is spironolactone. Isn't that medication some type of androgen receptor blocker/anti-androgen?

What do you think of this situation, he is very vary of questioning his doctor because he agreed to the TRT trial with gel so he don't want to mess it up and so forth..

Long post but I appreciate any insight someone might have!
 
Defy Medical TRT clinic doctor
Has he had recent thyroid panel done. TSH, free T4, free T3, reverse T3 and both antibodies.

No, TSH, free T4 and free T3 were on the list I wrote to request from his doctor. I might just pay them (or ask him to pay) out of my(his) own pocket because they are not that expensive in a lab near me. Now RT3 and antibodies are bit more expensive to pay.
 
No, TSH, free T4 and free T3 were on the list I wrote to request from his doctor. I might just pay them (or ask him to pay) out of my(his) own pocket because they are not that expensive in a lab near me. Now RT3 and antibodies are bit more expensive to pay.
Everything should be covered by insurance. Especially if they find some type of thyroid issue.
 
Greetings. Just providing with a bit of an update. So my father got his TSH and Free T4 levels tested by his doc (had a lot more tests written but he only wanted to do these) and results were

TSH 3.9 mU/l
FT4 13.5 pmol/l

Reference ranges varies a lot it seems but TSH upper limit I found to be 3.5-4 at lowest. Ft4 seems to be 9-19 to 11-22.

He is going to get blood drawn for ferritin, free T3, estradiol and prolactin. He has not started TRT as of yet.

What do you make of his thyroid numbers? He doesnt seem to have the common symptoms like cold hands or feet. Just the general fatigue but as you saw, his free test was low too.
 
Greetings. Just providing with a bit of an update. So my father got his TSH and Free T4 levels tested by his doc (had a lot more tests written but he only wanted to do these) and results were

TSH 3.9 mU/l
FT4 13.5 pmol/l

Reference ranges varies a lot it seems but TSH upper limit I found to be 3.5-4 at lowest. Ft4 seems to be 9-19 to 11-22.

He is going to get blood drawn for ferritin, free T3, estradiol and prolactin. He has not started TRT as of yet.

What do you make of his thyroid numbers? He doesnt seem to have the common symptoms like cold hands or feet. Just the general fatigue but as you saw, his free test was low too.

The problem with the TSH reference ranges is they are no longer invalid and doctors are still operating in the dark. TSH >2.5 is indicating the pituitary gland isn't happy with the amount of thyroid hormone. If he responds poorly to TRT it would point to the thyroid, you can't metabolize testosterone if thyroid is slacking off.

I've seen guys with high normal TSH, good Free T4 and Free T3, go on thyroid medicine and symptoms vanish. Lab testing doesn't always tell the entire story as it's a snapshot in time of a target that is constantly on the move.

Do not forget about Reverse T3, it can block Free T3 at the T3 receptors throughout the body and stop you in your tracks, a lot of doctors do not test for it especially in the UK. High Reverse T3 can help explain high TSH when Free T4 and Free T3 looks good.

Optimal VS Normal Thyroid Levels for all Lab Tests & Ages

The evidence for a narrower thyrotropin reference range
It has become clear that previously accepted reference ranges are no longer valid as a result of both the development of more highly sensitive TSH assays and the appreciation that reference populations previously considered normal were contaminated with individuals with various degrees of thyroid dysfunction that served to increase mean TSH levels for the group. Recent laboratory guidelines from the National Academy of Clinical Biochemistry indicate that more than 95% of normal individuals have TSH levels below 2.5 mU/liter. The remainder with higher values are outliers, most of whom are likely to have underlying Hashimoto thyroiditis or other causes of elevated TSH.

Reference ranges for TSH and thyroid hormones
There is also an argument that significant number of patients (up to 30%) with TSH above 3.0 mU/L have an occult autoimmune thyroid disease [4]. On the other hand the upper normal TSH reference range in elderly subjects (i.e. 70 plus years) may extend up to around 6.0 mU/L, with relative small changes in free hormones. This phenomenon also applies to elderly patients, where autoimmune thyroid disease had been ruled out
 
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More bloodwork

Prolactin: 130 mIU/l (50-360)
FT3: 4.74 pmol/l (3.5-6.5)
E2 Estradiol: 24 pg/ml (<40)
Ferritin: 120 ug/l (30-370)

So ferritin should not be the cause of his lowish red blood cells. TRT obviously should raise them. He will most likely start with the androgel soon. We shall see how his T will raise etc. and if there is little change could look towards the thyroid axis?
 
Androgel rarely works out for the patient, it's of too low a concentration and men absorb poorly through the skin. There's not a single member here on androgel with good reason, any doctor prescribing it hints at a complete lack of knowledge and tells me he doesn't really specialize in TRT.

He will need injections (IM/SQ) or T cream applied to the scrotum. T deficient men sometimes see red blood cells, hematocrit and hemoglobin lower, TRT will increase red blood cells, hematocrit and hemoglobin.
 
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