Any need to raise low DHEA if I feel fine?

[Someguy]

I've been struggling for a long time to get my TRT dialed in. Small changes in free T and E2 seem to have a big effect on me. I've finally found a protocol where I consistently feel really good, both mentally, physically, and sexually - 28mg Test subQ daily, 125 IU HCG subQ daily, 0.08 mg anastrazole daily.

This resulted in levels of:

T: 1484
Free T: 34
E2, sensitive: 29.3
DHEA-S: 164 (102.6-416.3)

At these levels I feel and perform great. Better than I ever have in my 2+ years on TRT.

My doctor mentioned that he'd like my DHEA a little higher. I was concerned, because the last time I tried DHEA my E2 skyrocketed and I felt like crap. In light of this he prescribed a low dose of DHEA at 15mg daily.

I've been taking the DHEA for a little over 2 weeks now and feel a lot worse. My mood is terrible every day, and my erection quality has gone down a lot. I haven't done more labs yet, but I'm guessing that my E2 is high.

My question is this: Since I felt great on this protocol without the DHEA, would I be better off just dropping it and staying at a lower DHEA-S level indefinitely? The other alternative is to keep taking DHEA to get my level up, but have to restart the whole balancing act with dosing my AI, etc. to get balanced again. I hate to do this since it's taken me 2 years to finally feel this good again. Starting all over would really suck.

What additional benefits will I get from bringing up my DHEA level if I feel pretty good at a lower level? Is it worth it?

 

[CoastWatcher]

I've been injecting on a daily basis for 21 months. My DHEA might be considered a bit low, just slightly, but I've stayed away from any effort to raise it as my e2 sits comfortably without an AI. My suggestion, particularly since you only noticed a decline in your overall, subjective response when you began using it, would be to set it aside. I'm sure you'll hear from others, who will likely disagree with this, so I wish you the best sorting out your options.

 

[Vince Carter]

I dropped DHEA about a year ago, I seemed to have all sorts of E problems with it and I kept questioning why I was taking it if I either didn't like it or wasn't experiencing a subjective improvement in anything with it so I just dropped it entirely. Some of us seem to really like it and some us it just makes TRT harder. No reason to treat a number on a lab test is one of our baseline recommendations.

 

[Vince Carter]

Couple of tips: dont use the cheap DHEA tablets from walmart which will likely aromatase thru the liver, use a (ultra)micronized capsule, sublingual, or even transdermal varieties.

 

[Someguy]

Thanks, everyone.

Vince, I'm using compounded DHEA capsules from Hallandale purchased through Defy. No idea if they're micronized or not.

 

[HarryCat]

I had the same bad reaction from Life Extension DHEA as I did from compounded DHEA from Hallandale, I don't think either is micronized.

I tolerated transdermal DHEA OK, but it didn't raise my DHEA-S levels much. I've quit all DHEA supplementation for now.

 

[Tommy Wall]

I supplement DHEA micronized every other day or even every third day. If I take it on daily basis I start to feel stressed etc..

 

[lowe2sucks]

Ive had different reactions to DHEA depends on delivery. Transdermal is good, I take it daily. Oral DHEA even micronized on other side caused me bad reaction.. With 20mg transdermal DHEA daily my DHEA was tested 480 with range 164-530

 

[Vince]

If you feel worse with supplementing DHEA, I would stop using it and see how you feel. I also use pure brand micronized 35mg daily, I tried stopping and feel worse without it. But I never had a problem with high estradiol, I believe it helps raise my E2, which for me is good.

 

[Vince Carter]

DHEA is typically my go to recommendation if someone by chance has low E and needs a bump, it can aromatase that easily in that tablet oral form.

 

[Vince]

DHEA is typically my go to recommendation if someone by chance has low E and needs a bump, it can aromatase that easily in that tablet oral form.

Thanks VC, that's the reason I supplement with DHEA.

 

[CoastWatcher]

DHEA is typically my go to recommendation if someone by chance has low E and needs a bump, it can aromatase that easily in that tablet oral form.

On the mark - and why I steer clear of it.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

I've been struggling for a long time to get my TRT dialed in. Small changes in free T and E2 seem to have a big effect on me. I've finally found a protocol where I consistently feel really good, both mentally, physically, and sexually - 28mg Test subQ daily, 125 IU HCG subQ daily, 0.08 mg anastrazole daily.

This resulted in levels of:

T: 1484
Free T: 34
E2, sensitive: 29.3
DHEA-S: 164 (102.6-416.3)

At these levels I feel and perform great. Better than I ever have in my 2+ years on TRT.

My doctor mentioned that he'd like my DHEA a little higher. I was concerned, because the last time I tried DHEA my E2 skyrocketed and I felt like crap. In light of this he prescribed a low dose of DHEA at 15mg daily.

I've been taking the DHEA for a little over 2 weeks now and feel a lot worse. My mood is terrible every day, and my erection quality has gone down a lot. I haven't done more labs yet, but I'm guessing that my E2 is high.

My question is this: Since I felt great on this protocol without the DHEA, would I be better off just dropping it and staying at a lower DHEA-S level indefinitely? The other alternative is to keep taking DHEA to get my level up, but have to restart the whole balancing act with dosing my AI, etc. to get balanced again. I hate to do this since it's taken me 2 years to finally feel this good again. Starting all over would really suck.

What additional benefits will I get from bringing up my DHEA level if I feel pretty good at a lower level? Is it worth it?

Someguy - if it appears that you've definitively had a rather poor response to DHEA (even now low dosage) for a second time...while feeling great without it (the old phrase fool me once...fool me twice...), my answer for you would now be quite simple...cut it out of the regimen and continue sailing along. Consider it an unsuccessful experiment, but with useful info learned. I think I know your provider and am sure he agrees ;-)

 

[Vettester Chris]

My first go around with DHEA was not a 'positive' go around, as I experienced a lot of the negative issues mentioned in this thread. I thought it was going to make me feel better, but it made me jittery and stressed. I was applying a transdermal every morning after showering.

Fast forward, and also keeping in mind my AM cortisol was under-performing about 25% to 30% of optimal range value on my saliva panel. As a continuing student in the pursuit of wellness and hormonal balance, it occurred to me that maybe the body was in a bit of a conflict with trying to supplement DHEA at the time of day when cortisol is at its highest. Cortisol and DHEA have opposing effects, and at least for me it was like putting a positive lead wire and ground wire together. There's a reason the circadian rhythm chose the AM for cortisol, as it can be 10x ng/dl higher than PM.

So, round two (2) was the PM experimentation. LOL, it was night and day (literally)!! Started at 15mg, worked up to 25mg (thank you Dr. Saya), and now my sleep has improved tremendously, I feel relaxed and calm when waking, and can definitely sense my awareness and demeanor is better. E2 went up a bit, but for me it was a blessing, as my normal TRT regiment keeps my E2 on the low/normal end, like 17 or 18pg. Last round in Dec., was 26.5pg/ml on the Sensitive platform.

It's just my opinion, but I think DHEA therapy is a BIG picture item that tends to get under rated for the most part, and in many cases is misunderstood in overall benefits, especially as it relates to adrenal balance, which in turn (like thyroid, testosterone, and others) can be a deal maker (or breaker) in the wellness program.

Like TRT, there really is no cookie cutter program that fits all. Find your needs, take the steps to achieve an overall balance, and take time to really research why this hormone exists, what its key purposes are, and how it works in relation to its adrenal counterpart, cortisol. Also, like TRT, how many times have we heard doctors or individuals say that testosterone is important, estrogen doesn't matter!?!?! We all know that isn't the case.

 

[James]

Any need to increase DHEA if low? Not if you're feeling like crap while taking it. I started at 25mg, then 12mg and finally 6mg before I finally felt better when dropping it all together. Interesting thing is, I had high E2 symptoms without the high E2 labs numbers.

 

[Vince]

It sounds like, DHEA helps one sleep better. I have been considering taking DHEA before bed.

 

[HarryCat]

It sounds like, DHEA helps one sleep better. I have been considering taking DHEA before bed.

I dropped it specifically because it disrupted my sleep. Made me wake up every hour all night long, even if I took it in the morning. Weird thing is that my last 4x cortisol test looked OK.

 

[Someguy]

Thanks, Dr. Saya and everyone else. I'll discontinue the DHEA and hopefully feel better soon.

I'm still curious: are there any long term health consequences to low DHEA? Or is the only reason to supplement just based on the fact that it helps some guys feel better?

 

[James]

HarryCat - I agree. I've said it felt like taking a sleeping pill. It would knock me out pretty quick, but I'd often wake up a couple hours later and not be able to sleep again for 2- 3 hours. DHEA was just a bad deal for me. Glad to be off it.

 

[Davet]

Dialing in the DHEA can be a lengthy process...first time around it caused all sorts of issues so I dropped it for a while. Then I kicked it back in @ 6mg ....after 6mths 12mgs and so on.
I had a low DHEA's reading so my doc told me to persevere with it to get my levels up and now I am feeling good and stable with it in my protocol and my levels are slowly creeping up.
Takes time to get this one right.