Another hematocrit question. I know....I know

[ta406]

Have any of you gents found any benefits of curcumin on lowering hematocrit or at least stabilizing it? I know hematocrit has been discussed at neaseum on all TRT forums but the problem I have is that in order to get my free test into a range that makes me feel good, my hematocrit increases incredibly fast. I am going to reduce my dose because at this rate I will have to donate every month at a minimum. My SHBG is 47 which isn't bad but my TT has to be between 1500-2000 before I really notice any benefit of TRT. This puts my FT between 30 40. I even switched over to a compounded cream since I have read that it has less of an effect on hematocrit. No such luck. Daily injections didn't seem to help much either. I don't mind donating blood on occasion so if I could just reduce the number donations I needed to make, I would consider that a win. And I know frequent donation can lead to health issues too. I don't donate based on a lab number, I literarily feel it when I need to donate.

I have tried 1 gram of narginin a day with no effect. I am going to add nattokinase since I have found some research that it may help with this issue. I have also read that curcumin may help. I have read that some people are using 4-6 grams a day for joint issues (which I have) and have seen their hematocrit decline too. Just wondering if I am one the right track? Are there any pharmaceuticals that have helped? There is an old thread about this that I was hoping to build off of since I know I am not the only one dealing with this.

Also wondering if diet has anything to do with it. I eat mainly red meat. I know that it can increase iron but I'm not sure if that has any correlation with hematocrit.

High hemocrit possible solution? study on Tumeric Curcumin

 

[captain]

Curcumin is harsh on the gut and if you have ulcers your hematocrit may go down when your ulcers are bleeding. Curcumin is a COX-2 inhibitor and I would guess it will come out one day to have the same problems as other COX-2 inhibitors.

 

[madman]

Have any of you gents found any benefits of curcumin on lowering hematocrit or at least stabilizing it? I know hematocrit has been discussed at neaseum on all TRT forums but the problem I have is that in order to get my free test into a range that makes me feel good, my hematocrit increases incredibly fast. I am going to reduce my dose because at this rate I will have to donate every month at a minimum. My SHBG is 47 which isn't bad but my TT has to be between 1500-2000 before I really notice any benefit of TRT. This puts my FT between 30 40. I even switched over to a compounded cream since I have read that it has less of an effect on hematocrit. No such luck. Daily injections didn't seem to help much either. I don't mind donating blood on occasion so if I could just reduce the number donations I needed to make, I would consider that a win. And I know frequent donation can lead to health issues too. I don't donate based on a lab number, I literarily feel it when I need to donate.

I have tried 1 gram of narginin a day with no effect. I am going to add nattokinase since I have found some research that it may help with this issue. I have also read that curcumin may help. I have read that some people are using 4-6 grams a day for joint issues (which I have) and have seen their hematocrit decline too. Just wondering if I am one the right track? Are there any pharmaceuticals that have helped? There is an old thread about this that I was hoping to build off of since I know I am not the only one dealing with this.

Also wondering if diet has anything to do with it. I eat mainly red meat. I know that it can increase iron but I'm not sure if that has any correlation with hematocrit.

High hemocrit possible solution? study on Tumeric Curcumin

Do you have recent labs to post with ranges.....where exactly does your TT/FT and e2 (sensitive assay) levels sit?

You may have room to lower your dose slightly as your FT may not need to be as high as you think?

When one is starting trt or any time a trt protocol is tweaked ( increasing the dose of testosterone) hematocrit will increase within the first 3 months and can take up to 9-12 months to reach peak levels.

The only true way to lower hematocrit is to lower ones testosterone dose or donate fairly frequently (which only leads to the vicious cycle of crashing ones ferritin) which as you know can cause many issues related to thyroid among other things.

Some try various supplements or switching to injecting daily using lower doses with some luck but even than it not a given that one will benefit.

If supplementation truly did make a significant difference than no one would ever donate.....which we know is not the case!

 

[madman]

Highly doubtful supplementation will be the key!

 

[Gman86]

Ya the main thing you have to do to lower HCT is lower dosage. I tried an experiment where I ate half of a grapefruit per day, for around 3-4 months, to try and lower HCT, and my recent labs had my HCT at the highest it’s ever been at 53. So clearly that experiment was a flop.

What is your HCT level? It can be as high as 52-53 before having to donate. And Madman is correct, just because it’s high now, doesn’t mean it will stay high, even on the same dosage. There’s guys on this forum that have reported that they used to have to donate frequently to keep HCT down, but after a while their HCT stabilized and they no longer have to donate to keep it within range.

I’m a high SHBG guy, so I understand the need to keep your total testosterone level high. I have to keep my total T around 1600, just to maintain my free T at the top of the range. I’m not 100% sure what free T range correlates with the free T numbers you posted, but I’m pretty sure 30-40 is quite a ways above the top of the range. So I also think the answer is to lower dose slightly, donate blood 3-4 times per year if needed, and just hope that eventually your HCT stabilizes around 47-51, and you can start to donate less often.

On a side note, here’s an extremely intelligent doctor that is leading the way in regards to research on iron, and how it actually reacts within our body. Check him out. He explains how ferritin is a horrible marker to check for iron status. Basically, I’m pretty sure we can donate blood more than we think. As long as our HGB and HCT levels stay within range, I don’t think we have to worry about lowering our ferritin too much. He says as long as you stay above 20, you should be fine. So I think guys on TRT can donate blood a lot more than we are lead to believe. I could be wrong on that, but I’m pretty sure that’s going to show true sometime in the future as science on the matter evolves.

 

[ta406]

Do you have recent labs to post with ranges.....where exactly does your TT/FT and e2 (sensitive assay) levels sit?

You may have room to lower your dose slightly as your FT may not need to be as high as you think?

When one is starting trt or any time a trt protocol is tweaked ( increasing the dose of testosterone) hematocrit will increase within the first 3 months and can take up to 9-12 months to reach peak levels.

The only true way to lower hematocrit is to lower ones testosterone dose or donate fairly frequently (which only leads to the vicious cycle of crashing ones ferritin) which as you know can cause many issues related to thyroid among other things.

Some try various supplements or switching to injecting daily using lower doses with some luck but even than it not a given that one will benefit.

If supplementation truly did make a significant difference than no one would ever donate.....which we know is not the case!

My last blood work was TT of 1600 plus with a FT of 30. E2 standard test was 55. I don't worry too much about E2 so I didn't pay for the sensitive test. I've been on TRT for 4+ years and have tried various dosing protocols ranging from TT of 500 to 2000. The higher I get it, the better I feel. I really feel no benefit at all if my FT is below 25. My hematocrit has never stabilized even when on daily injections for nearly a year.

 

[madman]

My last blood work was TT of 1600 plus with a FT of 30. E2 standard test was 55. I don't worry too much about E2 so I didn't pay for the sensitive test. I've been on TRT for 4+ years and have tried various dosing protocols ranging from TT of 500 to 2000. The higher I get it, the better I feel. I really feel no benefit at all if my FT is below 25. My hematocrit has never stabilized even when on daily injections for nearly a year.

Do you have high SHBG?

 

[ta406]

Ya the main thing you have to do to lower HCT is lower dosage. I tried an experiment where I ate half of a grapefruit per day, for around 3-4 months, to try and lower HCT, and my recent labs had my HCT at the highest it’s ever been at 53. So clearly that experiment was a flop.

What is your HCT level? It can be as high as 52-53 before having to donate. And Madman is correct, just because it’s high now, doesn’t mean it will stay high, even on the same dosage. There’s guys on this forum that have reported that they used to have to donate frequently to keep HCT down, but after a while their HCT stabilized and they no longer have to donate to keep it within range.

I’m a high SHBG guy, so I understand the need to keep your total testosterone level high. I have to keep my total T around 1600, just to maintain my free T at the top of the range. I’m not 100% sure what free T range correlates with the free T numbers you posted, but I’m pretty sure 30-40 is quite a ways above the top of the range. So I also think the answer is to lower dose slightly, donate blood 3-4 times per year if needed, and just hope that eventually your HCT stabilizes around 47-51, and you can start to donate less often.

On a side note, here’s an extremely intelligent doctor that is leading the way in regards to research on iron, and how it actually reacts within our body. Check him out. He explains how ferritin is a horrible marker to check for iron status. Basically, I’m pretty sure we can donate blood more than we think. As long as our HGB and HCT levels stay within range, I don’t think we have to worry about lowering our ferritin too much. He says as long as you stay above 20, you should be fine. So I think guys on TRT can donate blood a lot more than we are lead to believe. I could be wrong on that, but I’m pretty sure that’s going to show true sometime in the future as science on the matter evolves.

Looks we're kind of in the same boat. I start to feel bad when my hematocrit gets into the low 50's. Yes, unfortunately the only time I feel any benefit from TRT is when my FT is above the top of the "normal" range. I've been on TRT for 4+ years so its looking like this is something I'm going to have to deal with forever. Thanks guys

 

[ta406]

Do you have high SHBG?

It was 48 the last time it was tested. I know that's not terribly high but I have even tossed around the idea of low does winstrol to lower SHBG a bit. My thought was that I could possibly lower my dosage down a bit and still keep my FT at the top of the range. I know SHBG is important so it will be something I will have to monitor closely. What are your thoughts on that?

 

[Vince Carter]

Something to think about

 

[madman]

It was 48 the last time it was tested. I know that's not terribly high but I have even tossed around the idea of low does winstrol to lower SHBG a bit. My thought was that I could possibly lower my dosage down a bit and still keep my FT at the top of the range. I know SHBG is important so it will be something I will have to monitor closely. What are your thoughts on that?

I would look onto Proviron over stanozolol as even though the orals stanozolol and oxandrolone have been shown to lower SHBG they are both c-17 alpha-alkylated which is stressful to the liver (mind you in low doses) it should not be an issue although I still would prefer not to use long term.

Even though an SHBG of 48 is not terribly high it is on the high end so you would need to run a higher TT in order to achieve a healthy FT.

Regarding testing for FT most are using the direct analog assay which tends to underestimate true levels and others may use the Law of Mass Action calculated (Vermeulen) method which tends to overestimated true levels.

Equilibrium dialysis is considered the gold method for testing FT and it is the method in which all others are compared against.

Wish more people would have the ED done but it may be the expense.

 

[Vince Carter]

I don't find it worthwhile to run numbers that are basically supra-phys and past the point of a therapeutic protocol and then spend time complaining about what is essentially the number one side effect of doing that. You can say you feel good all you want but here you are, complaining about the (negative) side effects.

 

[HealthMan]

I tried everything to lower my HCT for 2 years +. The only thing that worked was to lower my testosterone dosage so my FT at trough would be in the mid 20s. I also thought I only felt good above certain FT level. And I was surprised to find out i feel my best at lower dosages (where i have no side effects and my body is in homeostasis) You have to give it time. You have to make sure other hormones specially estradiol are at the right level for you. And hopefully when you adjust your dosage to levels your body can reach homeostasis everything should fall into place. Best of luck

 

[52hoosier]

I lowered my HCT a couple points by using grapefruit seed extract (Naringin), Metformin and drinking more water. First time it's gone down in 3 years.

 

[maxadvance]

#1 way to lower hematocrit? Cardio, though the only things discussed seem to be adding supplements or chemicals into your body. Run, bike, jog, and lower your hemoglobin. Why do elite cyclists blood dope? because they lose hemoglobin when they perform and exhaust and deplete the oxygen carrying red blood cells. Popping pills should always be the last resort, unfortunately it's usually the first thing people look for.

 

[52hoosier]

I lowered my HCT a couple points by using grapefruit seed extract (Naringin), Metformin and drinking more water. First time it's gone down in 3 years.

I also do cardio 3 times a week

 

[ta406]

#1 way to lower hematocrit? Cardio, though the only things discussed seem to be adding supplements or chemicals into your body. Run, bike, jog, and lower your hemoglobin. Why do elite cyclists blood dope? because they lose hemoglobin when they perform and exhaust and deplete the oxygen carrying red blood cells. Popping pills should always be the last resort, unfortunately it's usually the first thing people look for.

Agreed. I was running and doing sled drags from last spring up until October or so when I herniated disk. I'm dealing with that and SI joint issues that are being very stubborn but hopefully I can get back to it soon.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Telmisartan lowers my h/h a little.