Androgel & DMSO

[hamletshead]

Does anyone have any experience using DMSO with Androgel to improve absorption? I've read three or four threads on t-nation and related forums discussing DMSO's ability as a transport agent to dramatically increase absorption rates. Anecdotally, some posters claim they've gotten their total T over 1200 with only 2 pumps a day by applying DMSO right afterwards.

Obviously, if Androgel is only 10% bioavailable and that can be doubled or tripled with DMSO, it makes Androgel cheaper for those paying out of pocket (i.e., can use 1 pump not 2).

 

[Nelson Vergel]

It may increase absorption, but so do moisturizers.

Factors that Can Improve Testosterone Gel Absorption

 

[hamletshead]

Thanks for the quick response, Nelson. A 17% improvement in absorption is obviously good with a moisturizer, but the guys touting DMSO instead of moisturizer are saying realistic improvements in absorption should approach 70%, based primarily on review of topical application of ********** dissolved in DMSO. You don't happen to have any studies lying about addressing the issue, do you?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

May be someone has access to this (I do not want to pay for a copy)

THE EFFECT OF DMSO ON PERCUTANEOUS PENETRATION OF HYDROCORTISONE AND TESTOSTERONE IN MAN*

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I hear DMSO makes your breath stink

 

[redliner]

I hear DMSO makes your breath stink

It can make you smell, but only in larger quantities.
I am not sure what else is in the topical creams, but DMSO will carry anything less than 1000 Daltons through into your body.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

One way to find out: measure your testosterone before and after using DMSO for a few days.

Get the test cheap here : defylowT.com

 

[Specialk]

50 yr old male here. 6'1". (240 pounds to 215)

I had (HAD!) very low total test 200. Found doc to work with. Using bio identical test cream from a compounding pharmacy. 100mg/GM test. Wanted to get back in shape. Not monster, just decent shape like I was in the marines years ago.

Continued working out, eating well and taking test. Not much improvement in Test levels even after more than doubling the dosage. (Maybe Total 400 test) Got USP DMSO. Wow. I was dramatically able to reduce the amount of test cream and cost. But... Still no physical improvement. Changed workout from from 3 times a week to 4 times a week.

Test with DMSO brought total test to over 1200. Was able to reduce testosterone (and cost) to get within normal healthy range of 700-900. I am now typically just at 1000 total test. I control estrodiol with Anastrozole. I control DHT with saw palmetto. Total monthly cost of Test cream Is USD$36. USP DMSO is very pure. Hardly any breath issues with pure DMSO. Maybe up to 10 drops DMSO using a pipette. Just enough to get it slightly pastey almost but not dripping off the bottom of the glass beaker and glass rod I use to mix it. DMSO must get me close to 100% absorption. That's from before and after blood tests. Used like half the test cream and still be around total test of 1000.

Do not buy that impure DMSO you see on store shelves. I think it a much lower grade and potential health hazard. Source USP DMSO.

With all that and 4x a week workout (free weights). My waist went from 40 inches to 34 inches in less than 4 months. 50 inch chest. Much less fat, nicer muscles. Some weight loss 240-215

I take a lot of pharmaceutical grade vitamins, eat well. No sugar. ZERO high fructose corn syrup. I avoid factory manufactured food. Meaning I try to eat food without an ingredients label. Almost no fried food.

Compounded test is so much cheaper than that weak overpriced androgel.

So if you don't have kids and put a shirt on say 20 minutes after you apply, this is an option to consider.

Oh, and the ladies do like the look...

Can you be more specific about the cream base (I understand some cream bases are more effective than others, and some are sticky and some are just lotions, etc.) Also, are you saying you buy your DMSO online without a prescription (I didn't think you needed one, but want to be sure) and do you mix your DMSO with your entire cream Rx or just a dose at a time (10 drops per dose)? and you said "hardly any breath issues" I knew a guy taking DMSO every day and he smelled like garlic all day ever day, not just his breath, his sweat, just his normal odor was garlicy.

I'm meeting with my Doc tomorrow (so I hope you answer before then) and I'm probably going to go back on TRT (went off for 2 years due to needle fatigue) and if I go back on it's going to be cream to see how it works for me.

My doc initially told me he didn't like cream because you have so much aromatase activity in the skin, what was your estradiol before Anastrazol and after?

Oh, also, any irritation with the DMSO?

 

[Gene Devine]

Transdermal's do not aroamatase in the skin; where the hell is he coming up with that? In fact, men using TD's rarely ever need Estrogen management due to the small daily amounts that applied versus once weekly large dosed injections.

The aroamatase synthesis happens within the blood stream.

Please note, the use of DMSO carry's a lot of health risks and one should be forewarned.

Anything substance, compound or chemical that is on or within your skin will be absorbed into your blood stream as DMSO will pull anything and everything within it into your bloodstream.

And no mattter how much you think you can clean your skin there are always substances within your dermis that you can't get to.

Even soap leaves behind a lot of chemical residue within the skin that will be pulled into your bloodstream...just be forewarned as there are health risks using DMSO.

 

[Specialk]

Its from a Compounding Pharmacy. The cream base was optimized for absorption. I do not know what the cream, is exactly. No scrip for the USP DMSA. It's actually pure. Off the shelf stuff can dangerous. I mix it a dose at a time. The amount of drops depends on the drop size coming from your pipette. It's common sense mix. Pastey not liquid. Won't drip off glass rod or glass when upside down. The USP DMSO does not leave a smell like that impure off the shelf stuff does. That's the wife's observation. Your doc is wrong about aromatase in the skin. It does not occur there. My Estrodiol was 45-55. Now it's in the safe range of 20-30. I take a 1 MG pill of Anastrozole and take .25 MG twice a week. Yes, for me 1/4th a pill twice a week.

Who cares what your doc likes. (Ok, I won't go there...). . Tell your doc to send the prescription to Women's International Pharmacy Compounding Pharmacy. I pay around $36 per month for a months worth of test. Perhaps 100 MG/GM to start with. With USP DMSO, you'll use less than that for sure.

Good deal. I got an Rx for cream 100mg/g and and Rx for a DMSO in a roll on... (pretty cool). So I can just roll it on the cream spot after I put the cream on.

As for the aromatization, I meant that when you go Trans-dermal, you have to go through fat and there is more 5-alpha-reductase in the fat. Anyway, doesn't matter, I didn't have too much of an issue of estradiol even when taking shots .8ml (200mg/ml) per week for 20 years. I have an Rx for anastrazol so I can take them if I want, but it's never been high enough to need to.

I posted in another post that I'm going to start with just the cream, get some labs, post it and then do the DMSO and get some more labs. It will be interesting.

Zxy, do you apply twice a day or once and if once, morning or evening? The reason I'm asking, is I have a buddy who applies twice a day, but I thought one of the benefits of cream is that it mimics our bodies natural rhythm which is peaked in the early morning hours and pretty much falls off during the day?

As for what my doc thinks, well, he is a friend. I helped him start his TRT clinic 20 years ago. I was one of his first patients. and I misrepresented what he said, as I explained above.

 

[Specialk]

Please note, the use of DMSO carry's a lot of health risks and one should be forewarned.

Anything substance, compound or chemical that is on or within your skin will be absorbed into your blood stream as DMSO will pull anything and everything within it into your bloodstream.

And no mattter how much you think you can clean your skin there are always substances within your dermis that you can't get to.

Even soap leaves behind a lot of chemical residue within the skin that will be pulled into your bloodstream...just be forewarned as there are health risks using DMSO.

I talked to my doc about DMSO dangers (after reading your post) (I met with him yesterday)... he told me Rx grade DMSO is pure and that pro football players lather themselves up almost daily and he has a lot of clients (it's a TRT clinic) who use it (though not the way Zyx had suggested, which he thinks is a great idea and if it works for me, he's gonna do it himself --Nno one enjoys shots.) and none of his patients have ever had an issue with it pulling in some virus or harmful molecule. He said you'd have to be unclean to get that type of issue, then asked me if I planned on rolling around in the dirt before I put the DMSO on..(he was joking).

 

[Specialk]

Oh. I do apply the cream in the rib area and also upper biceps and shoulder area. Not a lot of fat there. There is, but less than elsewhere I suppose. Never really worried about it. When I started TRT, I got hormone blood tests like 4 time a year. Now just once or twice a year. Hormones and PSA & CBC. Just a matter of balance. My PSA got as high as .5. Now with vitamins/supplements it's back to .3 Yah, not high at all, but try to keep it low.

I apply once a day in the morning. With USP DMSO, my Total T levels have been around 1000 no matter the time of day I get tested. Morning or afternoons just stays around that level. Applied in the morning before dressing, I can be out and about at work all day... So when I get home, I can be sure it's been absorbed to avoid second hand exposure to wife, kids.

Lucky you have a knowledgable doc. Most are well.... You know. Seems most docs get like 4 hours in hormone training in med school. Hope I'm wrong, but that's been my experience. The one I finally found is great.

I got a quart bottle of USP DMSO lasts about a year and a half. Just be super careful with DMSO. It can dissolve just about anything and absorb it into your skin. Like your shirt. I dress at least 20 minutes after applying. Have not seen or had any issues. Helps with pain and bruising. Wife walked into a table and bruised her leg. A few drops a couple times. It's gone.

awesome, I didn't want to apply twice a day and i'm in the same situation where I don't want to get it on my family. Perfect. I am SOOOO glad you posted your initial post. I feel like your post, is a game changer.

Also good to know it dissolves anythinng! I'll wait now too! I want to put it on my forearms... have you tried that? Oh and in your expeience, 20 minutes is long enough that if (say my forearms) touch anything, it will be ok... like my stained hardwood desk??

 

[Specialk]

was just calling into the pharmacy to check on my script... they are making a special base that has the correct amount of DMSO in it...so it's just a preloaded syringe that has the T cream + DMSO... how cool is that! The cream I have been using since my Sat. apt. was an old cream I found (I forgot I had it, since I never used it) 50mg/g... but now I don't have to use it, just got it all in one...so I won't be able to do a before DMSO and after since it's all in one now.

Just out of curiosity, how much cream do you use? If it is getting in at 70-80% rate, probably don't need much at all, I think you even said that in your initial post? I mean the Rx calls for a gram a day , but in my past TRT years, 800 total T is my sweet spot. if I go over, or under too much I start to feel crummy, so it would be nice to hear about how much you use. I know it's probably hard to describe? Any way you could take a picture of the amount on your finger or something like that (would be easier than trying to explain with words)... I mean if you can't or it's a hassle, no biggie, I just am looking for a starting point. I am pretty sure a gram would be way too much at the absorption rate you mentioned via your personal experience and lab results.

I am glad though, I want to use the smallest amount possible to get optimal results.

With the DMSO they said it was $75 for two months worth.

 

[ERO]

Nice that you can get that pre-mixed for you!

 

[Specialk]

Hers a pic.
A very small amount. Less than 1/8 Tsp. Maybe 1/16th. What I have is 125 MG/GM. I apply 1/2 gram cream. Basically 60ish MG Test. --Before DMSO Max was 1.5 -2.0 GM cream -- 250 Mg Test without good results. (With USP DMSO it's now 4 times less test and over twice the results 400 to 1000)

I wonder about the crumminess you feel out of the sweet spot. Estrodiol, DHT? Male body loves Test AFAIK

Perfect. You know you are helping a LOT of guys. 4 guys I know on TRT are already waiting on my results with intense curiosity. If my labs show good T levels, they are all going to switch. NO ONE LIKES SHOTS! ah ha haahha

As far as my crummy feelings out of the zone. My E2 has never been much of a problem and I don't have an issue with DHT either (51 with full head of hair)... I just think every man is different we each have our genetic optimums. Because I was a bodybuilder for so long, And this is common among bodybuilders, I am super sensitive to anything going on in my body (I can tell when I'm going to get sick, almost three days before I actually get sick). It comes from listening to your body for minutia all the time with regards to growth and recovery. It is definitely a double edge sword.

 

[Specialk]

For all the talk about how dangerous DMSO is... I did a little research. NOT very dangerous other than the transdermal properties and still only what can fit through the skin can go through the skin. I mean you can eat the stuff, inject the stuff..etc.

https://www.sott.net/article/228453-DMSO-The-Real-Miracle-Solution

 

[Specialk]

Continued working out, eating well and taking test. Not much improvement in Test levels even after more than doubling the dosage. (Maybe Total 400 test) Got USP DMSO. Wow. I was dramatically able to reduce the amount of test cream and cost. ...

Test with DMSO brought total test to over 1200. ...

DMSO must get me close to 100% absorption. That's from before and after blood tests. Used like half the test cream and still be around total test of 1000.

...

Just want to clarify as I'm trying to figure out my starting dose of 100mg/g (T-cream / DMSO).

If you're getting 100% absorption (or near) and you use 125mg/g T cream / DMSO, and the normal male produces
~4-7 mg / day of test. You would have to be using ~ 3%-6% of 1 gram of 125mg/g t-cream

I saw the picture you posted next to the pen cap, but it looks like more than 3-6% of 1 gram of cream. Maybe the absorption rate is lower??

 

[Specialk]

Try half. Work your way up over the next 60-90 days. Or try full and work your way down. I am real happy with the 60MG cream with DMSO. That would be half dose for you. 50MG.

Take your time. It won't be perfect the first time. Just apply 50 MG(half dose) get male hormone panel and CBC blood tests. Include PSA. Maybe every 60 days.

I use a pretty small amount. I never put it on a scale.

With the click top applicator, I am applying half a gram of cream per day. Each click of the click-top is 1/4th gram. I use 2 clicks.. Without DMSO it was up to like 6-7 clicks with very poor results. With 2 clicks disolved in DMSO my total test is 1000.

Not sure of the % absorption, but I'm happy as can be. At 6 clicks it was 250MG (2 grams cream) with levels getting maybe to 400. With DMSO and 2 clicks it's 60MG getting to 1000. I'll also bet the more DMSO I use, more gets disolved. If I mix it quickly, less gets disolved before application. If I mix it and let it sit for a few minutes, more will disolve into the DMSO. No science behind that. Just my observation/guess.

I wonder about that 4-7 mg per day natural production. What were the T levels at that production rate. Remember, there's a huge 'normal' range doctors strangely use.

Yeah, I'll work my way up. I am super sensitive. I found some old Rx DMSO I had for joint pain from a few years ago and put half my old 50mg/g cream on (several years old..I had the formula the whole time and didn't know it lol )... anyway did it this morning and have felt light headed ever since... strange. I read that because DMSO is also a detoxifier, it sometimes causes that if you have toxins in you... whatever.. I should get my real cream tomorrow and then i can really tell. They are just giving me a pre-filled syringe with the cream/dmso combo, so I can squirt out however much I want. I'll weight it. I have a pretty accurate gram scale (remember I was a bodybuilder and weight anything that went into my mouth).

The 4-7g of test per day is just from a bunch of research papers I read. The avg. 18 yr old produces 6g/day, with 4-7g being the range.

 

[JA Battle]

Anybody have any experiences with topically administered hormones mixed in dmso?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Here is what you find if you google DMSO excelmale.com