ALA and thyroid hormone

[Kaus Klinski]

Hi guys,

I think this topic is worth it to open up a new thread.

I decided to add some ALA to my post workout shake (about 250 mgs) to enhance glucose uptake/insulin sensitivity a little.

But now I found information that ALA may interfere with thyroid medication (levothyroxine) and I'm on T4. More specifically, ALA may interfere with the conversion of T4 to T3, but this issue is only mentioned with T4 substitution, i.e. levothyroxine intake.

Do you guys think there is any concern with low dose ALA supplementation once a day (250 mgs post workout) when I time the intake of the levothyroxine appropriately (many hours prior)? ALA has a very short half life of approximately 30 minutes.

I don't really see how this could be of concern anyway, because if ALA would somehow interfere with the conversion of T4 to T3, would'nt everybody on ALA have that problem? Why would it only concern substituted levothyroxine and not the endogenously synthesized T4? I don't get it, but it's mentioned on a lot of medical websites that ALA may have that effect.

However, here is a link to a study I found:

Effect of alpha-lipoic acid on the peripheral conversion of thyroxine to triiodothyronine and on serum lipid-, protein- and glucose levels. - PubMed - NCBI

Any opinions?

regards
Kaus Klinski

 

[Oldpowerlifter]

Wow makes me curious. I’ve been on ALA forever. And on T3 and T4.

 

[Gianluca]

hmm, just take ALA at dinner, and anyway you want to take your antioxidants 3 hours away from training

 

[Joe Sixpack]

The crucial missing piece of info here is how much ALA they used in the study. I have a feeling that they used many multiples of 250mg you are using.

 

[Kaus Klinski]

@Bonetti Gianluca:

The reason I want to take ALA in the first place is to enhance glucose uptake/insulin sensitivity post workout, so I would *have* to take it in close proximity to the end of my workout. ALA has a fairly short half life of only 30 minutes, so it would be out of your system after about
2 1/2 hours.

I agree on taking antioxidants as far away from a workout as possible, but on the other hand, I think it's just wishful thinking, because every substance has something like a half life in the body, it's not like you take it, it travels through the body and brings its benefits, and then it's gone (nor hurting your progress during the nex workout).

Vitamin E (rrr-a-Tocopherol) for example has a plasma half life of about 48 hours, NAC's half life is 6 hours, etc.

So once you have reached "steady state" conditions, you will have the antioxidant (in meaningful levels) in your body during your workouts anyway, except for the substances with a very short half life (like ALA), if you take them only once a day.

Regads
Kaus Klinksi

 

[Kaus Klinski]

@Joe Sixpack

Yes, I couldn't find any information on the doses used, so it remains speculative anyway.

regards
Kaus Klinski

 

[Kaus Klinski]

BTW, hope you guys understand me well, I'm trying my very best, but my english became quite "rusty" over the years (it's not my native language).

regards
Kaus Klinski

 

[Joe Sixpack]

BTW, hope you guys understand me well, I'm trying my very best, but my english became quite "rusty" over the years (it's not my native language).

regards
Kaus Klinski

Your English is quite passable and better than many of fellow Americans!

 

[Kaus Klinski]

@Joe Sixpack:
Thank you.

 

[Gianluca]

@Bonetti Gianluca:

The reason I want to take ALA in the first place is to enhance glucose uptake/insulin sensitivity post workout, so I would *have* to take it in close proximity to the end of my workout. ALA has a fairly short half life of only 30 minutes, so it would be out of your system after about
2 1/2 hours.

I agree on taking antioxidants as far away from a workout as possible, but on the other hand, I think it's just wishful thinking, because every substance has something like a half life in the body, it's not like you take it, it travels through the body and brings its benefits, and then it's gone (nor hurting your progress during the nex workout).

Vitamin E (rrr-a-Tocopherol) for example has a plasma half life of about 48 hours, NAC's half life is 6 hours, etc.

So once you have reached "steady state" conditions, you will have the antioxidant (in meaningful levels) in your body during your workouts anyway, except for the substances with a very short half life (like ALA), if you take them only once a day.

Regads
Kaus Klinksi

But 90min after work out you are already insulin sensitive, I don't think there is the need to look for supplement to amplify that, remember that the harder you train, the more insulin sensitive you are post work out, the more you deserve some carbs post work. keep it simple

 

[Kaus Klinski]

@Bonetti Gianluca:

Yes, but I think there's always room for improvement. Insulin is *the* most anabolic hormone.

BTW: Is there a actually consensus now by 2019 if antioxidants are really that bad for muscle growth/strenght gain? IMHO it has only been shown for high doses of vitamin C/E in a couple of small studies, and there are about the same number of studies that only found a neutral effect, some even found a beneficial effect.

Personally I think, it highly depends on the specific situation and the specific substance/dosage. I think you cannot generalize the term "antioxidant" in this context, I think you have to look at specific substance. Not all antioxidants might have the same effect on the workout.

regards
Kaus Klinski

 

[Nelson Vergel]

BTW, hope you guys understand me well, I'm trying my very best, but my english became quite "rusty" over the years (it's not my native language).

regards
Kaus Klinski

Your English is perfect. By the way, I was a fan of Klaus.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Have you guys ever seen this?

Antioxidant Supplementation Impairs Changes in Body Composition Induced by Strength Training in Young Women

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Why you shouldn't be always taking antioxidants, especially if you want to build muscle

 

[Gianluca]

Have you guys ever seen this?

Antioxidant Supplementation Impairs Changes in Body Composition Induced by Strength Training in Young Women

Jerry Brainum has been talking about this for a while, he recommends not to take Antioxidants. from supplement, about 2-3 hours before or after training. I believe because mitocondrial adaptation occurs mostly around that time post exercise?

 

[Kaus Klinski]

erry Brainum has been talking about this for a while, he recommends not to take Antioxidants. from supplement, about 2-3 hours before or after training

I highly respect Jerry Brainum, I'm a regular viewer of his videos and I think that most of the time he gives really sound advice (I don't agree with him on the whole "Insulin is making you fat therefore you should limit your carbs" thing though).

I remember him mentioning to take Vitamin E a couple hours apart from any workout, but again: what about the *half life* of a specific substance, in this case Vitamin E, with a long plasma half life of about 48 hours. Sure, there might be a little peak shortly after taking the vitamin E, but under steady state conditions (after taking the drug/substance daily for the period of about 5 half times), you would have vitamin E in your system all the time, with fairly even plasma levels.

So what good does it do to take it 3 hours apart from a workout?

regards
Kaus Klinski

 

[Kaus Klinski]

Have you guys ever seen this?

Antioxidant Supplementation Impairs Changes in Body Composition Induced by Strength Training in Young Women

Yes, but again, those studies are contradictory. There are a number of studies showing no negative impact of high dose vitamin E/C on workout performance/hypertrophy etc. That's why I wonder if there is finally a consensus.

Furthermore, there are some PHDs like Layne Norton (who specifically recommends ALA peri workout), or Jim Stoppani who has antioxidants (NAC, taurine) in his pre/post workout products. He mentions that high dose vitamin C might be bad though. I think it depends on the specific antioxidants and/or the dose. I wish science came to a convincing conclusion.

regards
Kaus Klinski

 

[Kaus Klinski]

Your English is perfect.

Thank you.

By the way, I was a fan of Klaus.

Me too ;-) I think he was a great actor (and he never made a secret out of his opinion), he was just a little bit ... special ;->

regards
Kaus Klinski

 

[Kaus Klinski]

BTW, here is what I currently take Pre/Post workout:

Pre:
100 mg caffeine (or sometimes more, it depends)
25 mg sildenafil (enhanced "pump" and blood flow, easier breathing/better oxygenation, lowers BP peaks on heavy sets)
10 g BCAAs
1,5 g HMB
1,5 g of glucosamine sulfate
15 g of hydrolyzed collagen with 50 mg vitamin C

Post:
20 g Whey protein
45 g of maltodextrin DE19/dextrose mix (1:1)
3 g leucine
3 g creatine mono hydrate
1 g taurine
0,5 g salt
5 g glutamine
500 mg cinnamon extract
100 mg theanin
500 mg myo-inositol
250 mg l-carnitine (base)
250 mg ALA

regards
Kaus Klinski

 

[Gianluca]

I highly respect Jerry Brainum, I'm a regular viewer of his videos and I think that most of the time he gives really sound advice (I don't agree with him on the whole "Insulin is making you fat therefore you should limit your carbs" thing though).

I remember him mentioning to take Vitamin E a couple hours apart from any workout, but again: what about the *half life* of a specific substance, in this case Vitamin E, with a long plasma half life of about 48 hours. Sure, there might be a little peak shortly after taking the vitamin E, but under steady state conditions (after taking the drug/substance daily for the period of about 5 half times), you would have vitamin E in your system all the time, with fairly even plasma levels.

So what good does it do to take it 3 hours apart from a workout?

regards
Kaus Klinski

that makes sense, like I said, some people have been taking high doses C/E for a life, without thinking when to take it or not, and they swear they don't complain of not getting any gains from weight training