After 2 weeks of TRT already sides?

[john_europe]

Hey guys,
I started TRT about 2 weeks ago. My prescribed dosage is 250mg every 10 days of test enantat. I self inject, so after doing some research I've changed to 125e5d. No HCG, no AI (AI could be introduced later if we face severe estrogen sides according to my doc, but he doesn't expect that due to my low BF). So far I got the first injection of 250mg in my doctor's office and five days later did my own first one with 125mg, tomorrow I'll do the second one.
The first 3 days (after the 250mg shot) were amazing, I was bursting with energy and in my best mood for several years. Unfortunately only the first 3 days - then my sleep got worse, I'm tired and I've experienced ED (which I never had before - I still have (low) libido, but my erection is not as hard as before TRT and not as consistent) - the second injection didn't change anything, tomorrow is my third one.
The reason for that has to be a surge in estrogen, correct? Can't be the test, and I'll figure my endogenous production hasn't been shut down so far either (no shrinkage of balls).
My first bloodtest on TRT is scheduled after 8 weeks (6 from now).. So now I'm thinking of taking a little arimidex myself (a friend could supply my a couple of 1mg arimidex pills, I'd do 0,25 e3d) for a couple of weeks. Downside would be, if I go to the doc in 6 weeks he won't prescribe an AI because my estrogen will be not that high I guess.. So I might also just ride it out.. He said an earlier bloodtest wouldn't make sense because it takes a couple of weeks for the body to adjust to TRT.

What would you recommend - should I just wait and stop freaking out?



Here are my stats:
-age: 27
-height: 180cm (5'11)
-waist: 80cm (I wear waist 31 jeans, abs are visible, I have a very athletic figure - but got worse over the last years, from eightpack to sixpack)
-weight: 77kg (170lbs)
-body and facial hair: slightly below average
-describe where you carry fat and how changed: belly, glutes
-health conditions, symptoms [history]: no health conditions, symptoms see below
-Rx and OTC drugs, any hair loss drugs or prostate drugs ever: no drugs (neither medical nor recreational), no alcohol/tobacco, weed occasionally
-diet: CBL oriented (no/very little junk food, enough fat and I'd say very healthy)
-training: 4 times a week about 1 hour heavy lifting, rep ranges 5-12
-testes ache, ever, with a fever?: Nope
-how have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed: never had/have morning wood
lab results: I've had 3 tests done within the last month
1. 4 weeks ago (at 6PM); 2. 2 weeks ago (at 8AM immediatly upon wakening); 3. 2 days ago (1PM)
Total Testosterone: range: 2.49-8.36 ng/ml: 1. result 0.578; 2. result 4.7; 3. result 2.47
E2: 27.1-52.2 pg/ml: 1. 16.6; 2. 10.9; 3. 14.2
SHBG: 16.00-60.00 nmol/l: 1. 56.86; 2. N/A 3. 56.60
Free Testosterone: range: 1.26-4.11 ng/ml: 1. 0.172; 2. N/A; 3. 0.78
LH: 1.7-8.6 mU/ml: 1. 1.7; 2. 3.3; 3. N/A
FSH: 1.5-12.4 mU/ml: 1. 8.11; 2. 8.62 3. N/A
Prolactin: 4.6-21.4 ng/ml: 1. 6.59 2. 6.72 3. N/A
TSH: 0.3-4.0 mU/ml: 1. 1.47 2. N/A 3. N/A
Vitamin D: 30-70 ng/mol: 1. 52 2.N/A 3. N/A
The first blood work was horrible (in terms of total test), I can't explain the result (it was taken in the evening but still), the second was okay and the third still slightly below reference. SHBG is pretty high as well.
Symptoms - why did I get my hormons checked in the first place?
1. Poor sleep quality, concentration issues in work - can't stay focused in meetings and have problems processing complex issues (was always my strong suit), less "drive"
2. Sports/gym: muscle&strength loss while adding fat (weight unchanged, waist significantly bigger and abs almost disappeared - I've been relatively lean (<12%BF) and now can't get back to my old stats (I've dropped a few pounds in a short cut but almost all muscle loss so stopped), although my nutrition&training is as disciplined as ever
3. Libido: Just a slight difference luckily, I've noticed I'm less horny but erections are still hard and 98% no problems, about 2-3 times sex/week (long-term relationship), a few years ago i wanted more than that, now it doesn't bother me anymore, so yes, slight decline

 

[Vince]

It would be nice if you could inject every 3 1/2 days and add HCG. Injecting more frequently would keep your levels even. I sure wouldn't add an AI. At age 27, I would be more interested in finding out why my T is low. It would be nice if you could raise it naturally or a possible restart. Your last choice should be TRT for life.

 

[Vince Carter]

Im not going to address everything you wrote but the first two weeks are a real honeymoon period while you have both endo and exo T in your system, Dopamine seems to run high but once you get shutdown, at about two weeks, you get in the real basement and have to work up in HRT. Slow, steady, you need about 4 weeks if not 6 for the body to adjust to where you can test. Steady, steady, steady. Do NOT trip day in and day out because you don't feel well and try to change a dose or frequency, or throw in an AI>

 

[TransitPoloce]

I've only been on TRT for 7 weeks but I had a similar experience to you. I'm 31 and had T levels around 200ng/dl Total test.

I was prescribed 250mg once every 2 weeks by my GP - Felt great initially: high libido, increased strength, better erections. At about the end of week 3 I wasn't feeling as great, and can assume it was due to my testosterone crashing due to the bad dosing schedule, and endogenous test completely gone

I've since changed to a TRT clinic and am dosing twice a week, have added an AI (Aromasin 12.5mg 2x week).

I tested high for E2 when I changed clinics, and my TRT Dr was concerned about pre-existing Gyno, so he suggested going on an AI. With the proper dosing schedule and since adding the AI i'm feeling great, better mood, stronger erections, high libido. My gf asked if I was taking Viagra the change has been that great.

I realise it's early days - but If I feel like this going forward I'll be very happy.

I'd suggest at least checking your E2 levels - mine changed very rapidly from when I first went on TRT, they went from <10 pg/ml to 70pg/ml on a 25-60 range test.

I agree not to freak about about every little thing though - I tend to do the same.

 

[johndoesmith]

I'm not going to read all of that, as it's formatted in a way that's hard to read.

I will say that you experienced a placebo effect, as testosterone doesn't elicit a mood altering effect within 3 days. The placebo wore off and now you don't feel as good.

You will probably say "but I know what I felt is real!" and it was real, to you, but it wasn't from testosterone directly. It was from you perceiving it to be.

The placebo effect is proven to be stronger with injections than with pills, same with expensive drugs vs inexpensive drugs, as well as with bad tasting medications vs tasteless medications.

 

[ERO]

Agree with what everyone already said. My 2-cents would be to emphasize what Vince already mentioned. Nobody is going to feel good long-term on a once every 2 weeks or once every 10 days injection protocol. Going to every 3.5 days makes for more even T and E2 levels.

 

[john_europe]

First of all thank you for you answers and sorry for the formatting, I've used paragraph but my browser seems to think otherwise.
I'd love to get HCG, an AI and inject twice a week, but here in Europe that's not that easy, in my country no male ever gets prescribed HCG with TRT. Injecting twice a week will be problematic, I'll stick with 125e5d (which is more likely 100-110e5d anyway, see below) for now, because I only have pre-filled syringes of 1ml/250mg (testoviron from jenapharm), and splitting them into 2 doses feels already uncomfortable and some test is lost during the transfer from the pre-filled syringe into another one in the needles.

Yesterday I did my third injection of 125mg and after about 2 hours I felt a tingling sensation in my right nipple, it flared up a few times afterwards during the day. Naturally I'm freaked out about gyno, because I already figure my estrogen is way too high. Furthermore, my sleep quality is really shitty at the moment and the quality of my erection is also worse then 2 weeks ago, before TRT.

My questions now are:
1) How long does it take to develop gyno? How long can I wait before taking action (taking an AI)? Would you recommend doing something right now because it could be too late in let's say about 2 weeks (irreversible gyno), when my doctor would consider blood work and an AI?
2) Is it likely that my estrogen level will stabilize by itself within the next few weeks?

I'll figure right now my test levels must be very high (especially compared to before TRT) because I've injected 500mg (250mg from the doc, then twice 125e5d) within the last 2 weeks and also my endogenous production should still be intact by now (so far haven't experienced any shrinkage/aches of balls). Therefore the reaction in terms of estrogen is also severe, but could balance by itself over time?
Therefore, when I take a blood test right now I guess it is not representative, but on the other hand the benefit would be to have proof of high estrogen and an angle to get a prescription for an AI..

 

[Vince]

John, here's a good post by Nelson. How to Avoid Getting Man Boobs, https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?442-How-to-Avoid-Getting-Man-Boobs

 

[lcvl]

That feeling in your nipples is quite normal at the beginning of your TRT journey. It's usually a sign of your hormones adjusting to new levels.
Regarding your dose, 250mg of T at once is too much for most people. I had the same exact experience. After a single 250mg shot I felt amazing for 3-4 days, and then crashed miserably (high Estrogen). I'm now on a 110-125mg a week protocol, usually divided in 2 weekly injections.

 

[john_europe]

Thank you for your replies!

I have completed a bloodtest yesterday (on day 4 of my 5 day injection cycle), and just got the results, my E2 is at 25.6 pg/ml currently and my total test was >15.000 ng/ml (range is 2.490-8.360). I'm exactly 2 weeks into TRT and have done 3 injections, day 1 250mg, day 6 125mg, day 11 125mg, day 14 bloodtest with these results (today is my next injection, I'm on 125e5d just as a reminder).

So the e2 seems almost perfect right? Testosterone is very high, the reason for that is probably that I had the "frontload" at the doctor's office with 250mg and currently my endogenous production is still running (I haven't experienced any shrinkage/differnce so far in my testicles). With 125e5d normally I shouldn't be at 15000, correct?
Right now I feel already a lot better, the low of the last few days has passed and my energy levels are really good. I have the feeling that I need much less sleep and I'm still energized and focused during the day. Other then the sensivity of the nips (could the high test also be the reason for that? Or is ist just the "doubling" of my E2 levels, although they are still not high, they are high compared to my pre-TRT levels), everything is great right now, also erection quality improved again.

 

[at15]

Jesus paralysis by analysis lol. Your 2 weeks in and said everything is fine. Give it some time and assess blood. Your young so 175 mg a week is going to leave you at supra psychological levels most of the time. You could back off if you wanted.

 

[johndoesmith]

Thank you for your replies!

I have completed a bloodtest yesterday (on day 4 of my 5 day injection cycle), and just got the results, my E2 is at 25.6 pg/ml currently and my total test was >15.000 ng/ml (range is 2.490-8.360). I'm exactly 2 weeks into TRT and have done 3 injections, day 1 250mg, day 6 125mg, day 11 125mg, day 14 bloodtest with these results (today is my next injection, I'm on 125e5d just as a reminder).

So the e2 seems almost perfect right? Testosterone is very high, the reason for that is probably that I had the "frontload" at the doctor's office with 250mg and currently my endogenous production is still running (I haven't experienced any shrinkage/differnce so far in my testicles). With 125e5d normally I shouldn't be at 15000, correct?
Right now I feel already a lot better, the low of the last few days has passed and my energy levels are really good. I have the feeling that I need much less sleep and I'm still energized and focused during the day. Other then the sensivity of the nips (could the high test also be the reason for that? Or is ist just the "doubling" of my E2 levels, although they are still not high, they are high compared to my pre-TRT levels), everything is great right now, also erection quality improved again.

What's the range for E2? Did you have anything else tested other than total testosterone and E2?

It's too soon for labs, you need at least 5 weeks of STABLE dosing. 6 weeks is best, so week 6-7 since you front loaded.

Are you on AI?

The sensitive nipples can be from suddenly higher hormone levels, and if it is, it's usually transient.

It's best to always get blood tests done on day of injection but before injection.

Chances are that you're experiencing a placebo effect. Testosterone simply doesn't work that fast.

 

[Weasel]

I'll echo what JDS said about sensitive nipples. Mine get sensitive anytime my levels become unstable, such as a change in protocol. Introducing an AI also makes them sensitive even when e2 is decreasing.

One levels stabilize again, the sensitivity goes away.

 

[zojo360]

My friend.

Very good replies from the veterans here. JDS AND VINCE CARTER nailed it on the head. TRT is a way of life. A new way of living a healthy, optimal lifestyle. Give it the time it needs to become optimized. Have patience and try not to obsess on the day to day minute changes in "feelings". A lot is happening in your body and it needs the time to become balanced.

I too am guilty of accessing things on a daily basis and have stopped. Obsessing on ANYTHING is not healthy and counterproductive for the best possible healthy lifestyle for you. You will become preoccupied leading to stress possibly in turn affecting other areas in your life. It's good to be pro-active in your new endeavor but slow and steady will win the battle in the end.

Good luck..