30 days on Clomid, DHEA, and DIM- Feeling Good

[mjb]

Here are my results after 30 days:
Clomiphene/DIM 12.5 mg/200 mg daily
DHEA 25mg troche BID

T was 305 -------> now 788
Free T was 5 ----> now 15.7
E2 was 16.5 -----> now 29.2
SHBG was 42 ---> now 46.9
LH was 4 --------> now 4.5

Energy and sex drive up slightly. Decreased caffeine needs noticed. Scale and calipers show 2 lb. inc in LBM.

Increased gas and intermittent diarrhea. Unsure if related.

What numbers/ratios should I be aiming for?
T:E ratio is now ~26.8. Is 20-30 considered ideal?
Free T is now ~2% of total T. Is 2-2.5% considered ideal?
Any other thoughts or comments?

Thanks.

 

[ERO]

Your numbers look good!

The ideal T:E ratio is typically considered to be between 14 and 20, but it is important to go by how you feel as much as anything. If you are only 30 days in, your body is still adjusting so I would say wait a full 5-6 weeks before you change anything unless something starts to obviously be off the mark. (High E2 symptoms, etc.)

 

[Weasel]

Wow, those numbers are impressive! Looks like you are one of the unicorns!

I'll be meeting with Dr. Saya here soon and cannot wait to finally meet someone who knows what they are doing.

My last doc flat out told me that he didn't give a shit how I felt. He cared about numbers. While appreciate his upfront honestly, it wasnt what i was looking for.

 

[ERO]

Wow, those numbers are impressive! Looks like you are one of the unicorns!

I'll be meeting with Dr. Saya here soon and cannot wait to finally meet someone who knows what they are doing.

My last doc flat out told me that he didn't give a shit how I felt. He cared about numbers. While appreciate his upfront honestly, it wasnt what i was looking for.

That is truly brilliant in that he could care less about how his patient feels as long as numbers on papers look good...Wow! That is right up there with the old joke about the operation itself being a success, but the patient died...

You are going to be in great hands with Dr. Saya.

 

[vienna38]

its look pretty nice.,i us clomid 2014-2015 and always mi shbg end e2 shots up too maximum but i dont us dim..Mayday this is the key for optimum clomid cycling?!

 

[mjb]

Just an update.

After my 30 day labs, we doubled the clomiphene/DIM dose to 12.5 mg/200 mg BID, kept the DHEA troche at 25mg BID, and added anastrozole 0.25mg QOD .

Four weeks after the adjustment my labs were:
Testosterone, Serum 886 ng/dL
Free Testosterone 16.3 pg/mL
DHEA-Sulfate 291.9 ug/dL
LH 4.4 mIU/mL
Estradiol, Sensitive 20.9 pg/mL
Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum 44.0 nmol/L

Feeling good and keeping this treatment for now.

DAY 0 30 60
Testosterone, Serum 305-->788-->886
Free Testosterone 5-->15.7-->16.3
DHEA 106---------->291.9
LH 4-->4.5-->4.4
Estradiol, Sensitive 16.5 -->29.2 -->20.9
Sex Horm Binding Glob, 42-->46.9-->44

 

[CoastWatcher]

After my 30 day labs, we doubled the clomiphene/DIM dose to 12.5 mg/200 mg BID, kept the DHEA troche at 25mg BID, and added anastrozole 0.25mg QOD .

Four weeks later my labs were:
Testosterone, Serum 886 ng/dL
Free Testosterone(Direct) 16.3 pg/mL
DHEA-Sulfate 291.9 ug/dL
LH 4.4 mIU/mL 1.7 - 8.6 01 4-->4.5-->4.4
Estradiol, Sensitive 20.9 pg/mL 8.0 - 35.0 02 16.5 -->29.2 -->20.9

Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy 61.5 ng/mL 30.0 - 100.0 01 26-->61.5

Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum 44.0 nmol/L 16.5 - 55.9 01 42-->46.9-->44

How are you feeling now?

 

[mjb]

How are you feeling now?

Feeling pretty good . Staying lean, getting stronger, and have a bit more energy. All of this with new 70 hour work weeks and less sleep. Can't wait to see the difference when my schedule gets back to normal.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Good to hear someone with good results. How old are you?

 

[mjb]

41 years old

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Even more interesting! Let us how you feel as weeks go by. Thanks

 

[AlcahueteJ]

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?6822-One-month-into-Clomid-treatment

Interesting, I'm on 50 mg 3x/week, 34 years old. I just had my two month follow-up (thread linked above). I am only on Clomid though, no DHEA or DIM though.

I noticed the same thing in regards to energy, and what appears to be some small gains in lean mass. Less caffeine/sleep needed as well. Sex drive still sucks though.

A quick summary:

Total T was 158, increased to 425

Free T is still out of range on the low end, I forget the numbers.

SHBG was 56, increased to 68

Estradiol was out of range on the low end, < 5, I was told it was the sensitive test

Anyways, I'll be following this with interest, good to hear it's working for you! Restrictive diet may be a culprit for me, but adding in things like DHEA/DIM may be something I bring up to doctor in the future.

 

[mjb]

Curious to hear thoughts on these latest labs. Any thoughts before I review them with Defy?

I had my blood work checked again, now 8 mos. after beginning this protocol. T is up, but so are E2 and SBGH. This is the first time I have had a progesterone checked and not sure what to make of it. Appears to be slightly elevated.

Subjectively, I am still feeling pretty good. Body comp continues to improve. More energy than I would expect with a tough work/school schedule.

	Result	Range	DAY 0 30 60 8 mos
Testosterone, Serum	1105 ng/dL	348 - 1197	305-->788-->886-->1105
Free Testosterone(Direct)	19.4 pg/mL	6.8 - 21.5	02 5-->15.7-->16.3 -->19.4
DHEA-Sulfate	253.1 ug/dl	102.6 - 416.3	xx-->106-->291.9-->253
LH	4.3 mIU/mL	1.7 - 8.6	4-->4.5-->4.4-->4.3
Estradiol, Sensitive	29.7 pg/mL	8.0 - 35.0	16.5 -->29.2 -->20.9-->29.7
Progesterone	0.2 ng/ml	0.0-0.1
SHBG	68 nmol/L	16.5 - 55.9	42-->46.9-->44-->68

Ratio Trends
T:E 18.5 -->26.8-->41.43-->37
Free T:Total T 2%-->1.8%-->1.76%

 

[johndoesmith]

Curious to hear thoughts on these latest labs. Any thoughts before I review them with Defy?

I had my blood work checked again, now 8 mos. after beginning this protocol. T is up, but so are E2 and SBGH. This is the first time I have had a progesterone checked and not sure what to make of it. Appears to be slightly elevated.

Subjectively, I am still feeling pretty good. Body comp continues to improve. More energy than I would expect with a tough work/school schedule.

	Result	Range	DAY 0 30 60 8 mos
Testosterone, Serum	1105 ng/dL	348 - 1197	305-->788-->886-->1105
Free Testosterone(Direct)	19.4 pg/mL	6.8 - 21.5	02 5-->15.7-->16.3 -->19.4
DHEA-Sulfate	253.1 ug/dl	102.6 - 416.3	xx-->106-->291.9-->253
LH	4.3 mIU/mL	1.7 - 8.6	4-->4.5-->4.4-->4.3
Estradiol, Sensitive	29.7 pg/mL	8.0 - 35.0	16.5 -->29.2 -->20.9-->29.7
Progesterone	0.2 ng/ml	0.0-0.1
SHBG	68 nmol/L	16.5 - 55.9	42-->46.9-->44-->68

Ratio Trends
T:E 18.5 -->26.8-->41.43-->37
Free T:Total T 2%-->1.8%-->1.76%

Looks good man. E2 is higher, yes, but only in numbers. That is NOT a high E2, in fact I think that's perfect for where your total test is. Although you're on clomid, so 29 in a clomid guy is different than a TRT guy, but you have no symptoms.

SHBG did increase a lot, but free is still fine, and you feel fine, I doubt it's a problem.

You're with defy, you're in good hands, and disregard anything I said if Dr saya says otherwise.