20mg Test E EOD / 100iu HCG ED - Concerning Bloods

[tomfb97]

02/08/18
Protocol:
25mg Test E EOD
Bloods
Notes:
My doctor and I were more or less satisfied with my current levels. E2 was slightly high but I was asymptomatic so we weren't concerned. My doc wanted me on HCG, however, so we reduced Test E dose to 20mg EOD and introduced 100iu HCG every morning.
22/11/18
Protocol:
20mg Test E EOD, 100iu HCG ED
Bloods
Notes:
I have no idea how a dose reduction and introduction of 100iu HCG could have done that to my levels. I inject the TE EOD in the evenings, and on both sets of labs the blood was drawn the morning of the day my next injection was due.
My appointment with my doctor isn't until 11 December, so I'm most likely going to reduce my dose to 15mg EOD and keep HCG the same until then.
Anyone have any ideas? The low progesterone is also of concern, should I start to supplement with preg or prog?

 

[Vince]

I would just reduce your dose of testosterone to 15 mg. Where you Labs taken on injection day before you injected. I'm very surprised at your high levels.

 

[Vince Carter]

Either you're/were secondary hypogonadal or the odd ball that actually produces Endo T thru HCG use.

 

[tomfb97]

I would just reduce your dose of testosterone to 15 mg. Where you Labs taken on injection day before you injected. I'm very surprised at your high levels.

Hi Vince, the blood was drawn after my morning HCG injection but before my evening 20mg Test E injection.

I have since reeuced my dose to 12.5mg upon instruction from my doctor.

 

[tomfb97]

Either you're/were secondary hypogonadal or the odd ball that actually produces Endo T thru HCG use.

I assumed I was primary hypogonadism, as my low T symptoms started after my third testicular torsion surgery when stitches were fitted to my testicles.

That is now in doubt due to this increase from HCG, however.

 

[Joey786]

How do you feel Tom?

 

[Vince Carter]

Hi Vince, the blood was drawn after my morning HCG injection but before my evening 20mg Test E injection.

I wouldn't shoot the HCG before the blood draw.

 

[Vince Carter]

...and never supplement Progesterone. The Prog test is inaccurate and expensive, the reason most guys test Pregenolone which is one step up in the hormonal cascade. But as some one else said how much of this is chasing numbers on a page...I personally don't recommend supplementing these Pro-Hormones as that's what it amounts to, numbers on a piece of paper. Guys have enough problems dialing in Test doses, and HCG, an AI if they need it...just seems to muddy the waters adding in MORE things.

 

[tomfb97]

Sorry for not responding to the above comments, I don't frequent this forum too often so only saw the initial responses.

Regarding chasing numbers, I can assure you all that this is not the case. I couldn't care what any of my bloods looked like on paper if I felt good, but I don't, and haven't for a long time.

I had my progesterone levels tested again, and this time it was 0.565 (0.70 - 4.30) nmol/L.

That was while supplementing 25mg of Pregnenolone daily, which didn't seem to have an effect on my levels.

 

[tomfb97]

I wouldn't shoot the HCG before the blood draw.

Why would I have bloods drawn without my daily HCG injection, as those bloods would not represent the levels that are present in my system normally as I inject HCG every day?

What would be the point of making changes to my protocol based upon bloods that do not reflect the levels present in my system.

 

[tomfb97]

You are just chasing numbers from the sound of it. You and your doc. If you feel great in all ways I wouldn’t worry about T being out of some arbitrary range. If you don’t feel optimized then it makes sense to reduce the dose a bit and try again.

What about my post led you to inferring that I am just chasing numbers? Couldn't care less what my blood work showed if I felt good. But I don't, and haven't felt good since starting TRT.

I'm investigating upstream hormones because I have other symptoms since starting TRT that could be attributed to things outside of simply monitoring E2 and T.

 

[Vince Carter]

Why would I have bloods drawn without my daily HCG injection, as those bloods would not represent the levels that are present in my system normally as I inject HCG every day?

What would be the point of making changes to my protocol based upon bloods that do not reflect the levels present in my system.

Well good luck to you with all your knowledge.

 

[tomfb97]

Well good luck to you with all your knowledge.

It was a genuine question, wasn’t meant to be taken as an insult, Vince.

 

[madman]

02/08/18
Protocol:
25mg Test E EOD
Bloods
Notes:
My doctor and I were more or less satisfied with my current levels. E2 was slightly high but I was asymptomatic so we weren't concerned. My doc wanted me on HCG, however, so we reduced Test E dose to 20mg EOD and introduced 100iu HCG every morning.
22/11/18
Protocol:
20mg Test E EOD, 100iu HCG ED
Bloods
Notes:
I have no idea how a dose reduction and introduction of 100iu HCG could have done that to my levels. I inject the TE EOD in the evenings, and on both sets of labs the blood was drawn the morning of the day my next injection was due.
My appointment with my doctor isn't until 11 December, so I'm most likely going to reduce my dose to 15mg EOD and keep HCG the same until then.
Anyone have any ideas? The low progesterone is also of concern, should I start to supplement with preg or prog?

Rather odd that your TT would jump from 26.4----->49 nmol/L from a very small reduction of testosterone 25----->20 mg EOD along with the addition of such a small dose of HCG 100iu daily.

As you may know the estradiol test you used is the wrong one as the correct test is the estradiol sensitive (LC/MS-MS) and the FAI (free androgen index) is rarely used/not needed.

 

[madman]

02/08/18
Protocol:
25mg Test E EOD
Bloods
Notes:
My doctor and I were more or less satisfied with my current levels. E2 was slightly high but I was asymptomatic so we weren't concerned. My doc wanted me on HCG, however, so we reduced Test E dose to 20mg EOD and introduced 100iu HCG every morning.
22/11/18
Protocol:
20mg Test E EOD, 100iu HCG ED
Bloods
Notes:
I have no idea how a dose reduction and introduction of 100iu HCG could have done that to my levels. I inject the TE EOD in the evenings, and on both sets of labs the blood was drawn the morning of the day my next injection was due.
My appointment with my doctor isn't until 11 December, so I'm most likely going to reduce my dose to 15mg EOD and keep HCG the same until then.
Anyone have any ideas? The low progesterone is also of concern, should I start to supplement with preg or prog?

Are you sure the same assay/lab was used when you had your TT levels taken as on:


02/08/18
Protocol:
25mg Test E EOD
Bloods

The reference range listed for Testosterone is 7.6-31.4 nmol/L and your TT is 26.4





Your next set of labs taken on:

22/11/18
Protocol:
20mg Test E EOD, 100iu HCG ED
Bloods

The reference range listed for Testosterone is 8.64-29.00 nmol/L and your TT is 49

 

[tomfb97]

Rather odd that your TT would jump from 26.4----->49 nmol/L from a very small reduction of testosterone 25----->20 mg EOD along with the addition of such a small dose of HCG 100iu daily.

As you may know the estradiol test you used is the wrong one as the correct test is the estradiol sensitive (LC/MS-MS) and the FAI (free androgen index) is rarely used/not needed.

Unfortunately we don’t have access to the sensitive assay here in the UK, only standard.

 

[tomfb97]

Are you sure the same assay/lab was used when you had your TT levels taken as on:


02/08/18
Protocol:
25mg Test E EOD
Bloods

The reference range listed for Testosterone is 7.6-31.4 nmol/L and your TT is 26.4





Your next set of labs taken on:

22/11/18
Protocol:
20mg Test E EOD, 100iu HCG ED
Bloods

The reference range listed for Testosterone is 8.64-29.00 nmol/L and your TT is 49

I use a private online company for Blood Work, so I couldn’t tell you if they used a different lab or not.

Thanks for your help.

 

[madman]

I use a private online company for Blood Work, so I couldn’t tell you if they used a different lab or not.

Thanks for your help.

I would look into this because when comparing lab work and levels of ones hormones the same assay always needs to be used let alone the same lab otherwise it can definitely cause variance in numbers sometimes to the point of being drastically different in some cases.

 

[madman]

Unfortunately we don’t have avvsss to the sensitive asay here in the UK, only standard.

I was hoping Dr. Stevens would understand the importance of this as it was also unavailable in Canada until recently.








HOW TO GET TRT IN THE UK

 

[Gman86]

Why would I have bloods drawn without my daily HCG injection, as those bloods would not represent the levels that are present in my system normally as I inject HCG every day?

What would be the point of making changes to my protocol based upon bloods that do not reflect the levels present in my system.

What brand of HCG are you using?