“Cycling” for the sweet spot.

[camygod]

Maybe you’re right, maybe 50mg once per day is enough for some guys. I know dr Nichols starts guys off at 2 clicks twice per day transscrotally, for a total of 200mg/ day. Was also listening to the TOT roundtable, and the lifting dermatologist guy uses 3 clicks twice per day, transscrotally, for a total of 300mg/ day, and the other doctor on there uses 2-3 clicks twice per day, transscrotally, he said. So I just assumed 50mg once per day is a low dose with transscrotal cream.

i know they are medical pros but their number are coming back all high like over 1500ng/dl total test i just wonder if long term this is good i know their health markers are good but no one in nature would ever be able tpo produce such high levels constantly i wonder how many of them would still feel good on one or 2 clicks a day instead of the full 200mg

 

[Gman86]

i know they are medical pros but their number are coming back all high like over 1500ng/dl total test i just wonder if long term this is good i know their health markers are good but no one in nature would ever be able tpo produce such high levels constantly i wonder how many of them would still feel good on one or 2 clicks a day instead of the full 200mg

Good questions. From listening to dr Nichols talk on the subject, it seems like he feels that he see’s increased subjective benefits from his clients with these higher levels. But like you said, we really don’t know what these levels will do long term. I’m pretty optimistic that as long as all health markers are monitored and kept in balance, that these guys probably don’t have to worry, but again, we just really don’t know due to all of this being so new.

 

[camygod]

Good questions. From listening to dr Nichols talk on the subject, it seems like he feels that he see’s increased subjective benefits from his clients with these higher levels. But like you said, we really don’t know what these levels will do long term. I’m pretty optimistic that as long as all health markers are monitored and kept in balance, that these guys probably don’t have to worry, but again, we just really don’t know due to all of this being so new.

There is a guy who posted here who was on high dose of cream and was good for one or two years then after seemed to gain weight in his waist and started to feel shit
im sorry i cant find his post but was intresting anyway
im sure the drs know way more than me its just my common sense finds it hard to accept running such high but like i say im not profesional

just find some of the claims on the tot round table and such to be a bit over the top and there is many who dont do well with their test over 900ng/dl so ill keep my ears to the ground and see how this plays out i just dont think men in middle age should have to have higher test levels than teen agers to feel "good"

 

[TLR]

That's been my experience. Been at this almost ten years and highest dose I used was 1cc for awhile. My free T at trough was in the mid to high twenties on that dose (once a week). I was taking an AI and my numbers looked good on paper but I was anxious, overstimulated, bloated and struggled with erectile issues. The best compromise I've found over the years was 70-80 mg a week split twice a week. In reviewing the one good study (posted earlier by Fifty) on scrotal cream 50 mg put most guys at around 600 - 700 at peak, then it slowly tapered off over 16 hrs. but stayed in physiological range for 24 if I remember correctly. My trough when shooting 80 mg a week is usually in the 500 - 600 range. It just made sense to start with 50 and give it time. Nichols states most of his patients need to have free T between 30 and 50 to feel good, and I don't doubt some guys do feel good on that dose. In my experience I am not one of those guys, but I'm open to the fact it may be different with trans scrotal cream. All I can say is i don't feel like I am not getting enough after two weeks, and I have actually felt pretty good other than the afternoon "rush" that has been slowly subsiding the past few days. I am not declaring VICTORY yet because the body has a way of adjusting and I remember for the first couple of months I thought I had found the holy grail when I first started injections until the Lord sat me down and said "there will be no more of that shit, Sir." We shall see.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

@camygod

While your comparison to what's "natural" is a laudable way to look for clues and many more people should do this as it relates to diet, it's likely this get less accurate and may actually be counter-productive as we age. As I just pointed out in another thread:

"Regarding the several comment here on Natty-ness, it seems pretty clear that after about age 40, the body starts trying to kill itself. This makes sense from an evolutionary perspective since we wouldn't want a lot of damaged members of the species consuming resources in excess of their ability to promote the species. As Josh Mittledorf of the excellent Aging Matters blog says (paraphrasing): there is no such thing as natural anti-aging since what's "natural" is for the body to kill itself, and sub-optimal hormones may be one of the ways that happens."

I tried a daily program using Test-prop which I did well on, but I seem to do fractionally better on Test-cyp for some reason, which would seem to be less "natural".

Also, those interested in a short-acting T could try Andriol. Some people seem to like it but it seems like a very niche solution.

 

[camygod]

@camygod

While your comparison to what's "natural" is a laudable way to look for clues and many more people should do this as it relates to diet, it's likely this get less accurate and may actually be counter-productive as we age. As I just pointed out in another thread:

"Regarding the several comment here on Natty-ness, it seems pretty clear that after about age 40, the body starts trying to kill itself. This makes sense from an evolutionary perspective since we wouldn't want a lot of damaged members of the species consuming resources in excess of their ability to promote the species. As Josh Mittledorf of the excellent Aging Matters blog says (paraphrasing): there is no such thing as natural anti-aging since what's "natural" is for the body to kill itself, and sub-optimal hormones may be one of the ways that happens."

I tried a daily program using Test-prop which I did well on, but I seem to do fractionally better on Test-cyp for some reason, which would seem to be less "natural".

Also, those interested in a short-acting T could try Andriol. Some people seem to like it but it seems like a very niche solution.

good points I also think there is men out there who want to justify running higher test than they need or is healthy to have a ridiculous physique which for me is kinda sad as it looks werid and try hard I'm just interested in feeling good and being lean
tried anidrol didn't seem to get on with it

 

[themud]

Hope this helps.

I tried small dose 2x/wk no effect. More study at the daily endogenous of 7-10 and decided to go daily. I did 12 then 14/day and felt great. Libido has never really been an issue even when low T. My T was 300 before then 700-900 after.

I had a ton of leftover vials and last December tried a "cycle" of 30 t cup/day. Felt awesome even with 70+ E2, no signs of gyno etc. In fact my wife and I had never in 22 years got along so well. I was at around T 1700. Had Dr BW coming up in April this year so I dropped down to let it settle (about 1 month). T showed 600, E2 was still high. Felt fine. HCT never an issue. Wife and I started arguing again about that time.

What I have found about libido, because it didn't go up or down and I feel an increase of libido with higher E2, was that it was definitely energy related. If I was way exhausted, example: no eating do Spartan 13 mile obstacle race at 3:30 hours, no eating drive four hours home I was so horny I could lift my wife up with my boner. BUT if I was only tired my libido sucked. BUT if I wasn't tired at all my libido was good.

I have found when I get regular sleep I have good libido. I have to be vigilant about rest and sleep. If it's so so my libido is lower. If I completely exhaust myself it's uncontrollably high.

Had some T prop. Not only did it burn, I got huge lumps if I didn't massage it hard for 30 seconds and I got headaches from it. T enth felt like cyp.

My goal is consistent sleep and naps whenever possible and libido seems good.

 

[Willyt]

Hey BigBamBoo - Your post got me very curious about this topic. Any update on your experiment to cycle for the sweet spot? Did you go through with it? What was the protocol and how were the results?