Natural Testosterone Levels vs TRT Testosterone Levels

Hello,

I have been looking into TRT for my low (<300) levels. As I've studied the internet, I have saw some dramatic physical results from TRT. So, I started to wonder.......

As I understand it, if someone on TRT says that their level is 600, they are usually saying that they tested at 600, just before a needed injection. So they were actually higher earlier in the week, correct?

Now, lets say that someone who isn't on TRT, says that their testosterone is 600. They are likely saying that it was 600 when it was tested, usually early in the day. It will change throughout the rest of the day. Correct?

Does it seem that weight lifting with a TRT level of 600 would produce more gains than a natural peak of 600?

I'm curious if I guy tested at 600 but went on TRT and posted the same 600 just before an injection, would he see noticeably more muscle from TRT in his workouts? If so, why would this be? Would it just be the constant level vs the natural daily peaks and valleys? Would it be that one tests at peak and the other (TRT) tests at a low point?

I'm very curious about gaining more muscle on TRT. I'm 41 YO 6'2 185 lbs. I'm pretty fit, but Ive always gotten very little return from my workouts. I'm curious how much of that is caused by low T. From my studies, I feel like TRT will help me to gain muscle. On the other hand, I never seemed to gain a lot from workouts when I was 25 yo. Maybe my T was low back then, but I guess I find that hard to accept, because my sex drive was so high.

Any thoughts?

600 is 600 but a blood test is a snapshot at that point in time only. Natural T levels can swing 150 points in a day.
I would stick to the comparison of your current number to trt.
A multiple lab draw with a level below 300 will affect most men in many ways.
What is your main concern or symtom your trying to treat?

Thanks for the reply. I'm not fat, but I find that I hold more abdominal fat than I used to. I have no sex related problems, but my sex drive seems to be less than it used to be. In other words, there are nights that I would just as soon go to sleep as initiate. There also seem to be times that I am less motivated in the afternoon to get up and do things. I just feel like sitting in front of the TV.

These things made me question my T levels.

I lift weights regularly, but it seems that I feel "over-trained" even when I train very reasonably. If I train with much volume, it seems like it hurts my sex drive even more. Ever heard of that? Again, there are no problems with erections or performance, I'm just not as eager. I mention this because I find it odd that my drive is down but performance is fine.

I stopped lifting weights for about 9 months and lost gains that I had accumulated over some years. I've been back at it for about 3 months and it seems like I get no where. I just don't seem to look or be as strong as I used to.

Initially, my main concern was gaining muscle, looking better and getting more fit, but as I think about how my life has slowly changed, I would like to feel more motivated and energetic.

trt4me said:

600 is 600 but a blood test is a snapshot at that point in time only. Natural T levels can swing 150 points in a day.
I would stick to the comparison of your current number to trt.
A multiple lab draw with a level below 300 will affect most men in many ways.
What is your main concern or symtom your trying to treat?

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If someone tested at 600 on TRT before their next injection that would be their trough lowest level so yes they would be higher at their peak earlier in the week.

Someone not on TRT that tested at 600 in the early am when natural levels should be peaking will have a gradual decline over the course of the day but not too drastic of a decrease.

Theoretically having a more constant blood testosterone level in the upper range of normal would more than likely increase recovery times and also improve the ability to gain lean mass but genetics/training/diet also play a strong role in ones ability to gain muscle.

On average most TRT patients on injectables use 100-150mg testosterone/week which will allow most to reach optimal serum levels of high/normal but at these dosages you are not going to see drastic gains in muscle. Mind you some patients go as high as 200mg/week but this is not the norm and considered a mild steroid cycle dosage.

200-600mg/week are usually the ranges where you would see the best results regarding muscle gains but as I stated earlier genetics/training/diet all contribute to ones overall results

So, you don't think there would be much difference in the two scenarios?

How long have you been on TRT and what have you seen in muscle gains/fat loss?

I understand/respect the difference between TRT and a cycle. I have seen that 500 mg of T will make a visual difference pretty quick. Ive also seen a couple of guys weekly use a gram of test with some tren... Both of those guys looked very different in short order.

With that said, I know a few guys who are on TRT that have made some pretty noticeable gains in several months or a year. These guys go to doctors for TRT. T may be slightly at the high end, but they aren't cycling. It seems like TRT made a big difference for them. They look like guys that work out.................

Thanks

madman said:

If someone tested at 600 on TRT before their next injection that would be their trough lowest level so yes they would be higher at their peak earlier in the week.

Someone not on TRT that tested at 600 in the early am when natural levels should be peaking will have a gradual decline over the course of the day but not too drastic of a decrease.

Theoretically having a more constant blood testosterone level in the upper range of normal would more than likely increase recovery times and also improve the ability to gain lean mass but genetics/training/diet also play a strong role in ones ability to gain muscle.

On average most TRT patients on injectables use 100-150mg testosterone/week which will allow most to reach optimal serum levels of high/normal but at these dosages you are not going to see drastic gains in muscle. Mind you some patients go as high as 200mg/week but this is not the norm and considered a mild steroid cycle dosage.

200-600mg/week are usually the ranges where you would see the best results regarding muscle gains but as I staed earlier genetics/training/diet all contribute to ones overall results

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I am 42 years old and looking into being treated for trt as my TT/FREE T are in the low/normal range and I have been experiencing many symptoms of low t over the past number of years.

If you suffer from low t symptoms and decide to pursue therapy with a knowledgeable doctor you could very well be one of those people that responds well and makes an improvement in overall muscle gains but I would not expect them to be comparable to a steroid cycle.

If your natural levels are <300 and lets say going on trt put your levels in the upper/normal range than you would definitely notice better recovery/less soreness/increased strength/increase lean mass but your genetics/diet/training will greatly contribute to how you respond.

Some patients respond really well as oppose to others that respond average.

jason999 said:

Thanks for the reply. I'm not fat, but I find that I hold more abdominal fat than I used to. I have no sex related problems, but my sex drive seems to be less than it used to be. In other words, there are nights that I would just as soon go to sleep as initiate. There also seem to be times that I am less motivated in the afternoon to get up and do things. I just feel like sitting in front of the TV.

I was in the same boat. Didn't think I had low sex drive, boy was I WRONG. Honestly have had more sex with my wife in the past year of trt than the previous ten. Not kidding.

These things made me question my T levels.

I lift weights regularly, but it seems that I feel "over-trained" even when I train very reasonably. If I train with much volume, it seems like it hurts my sex drive even more. Ever heard of that? Again, there are no problems with erections or performance, I'm just not as eager. I mention this because I find it odd that my drive is down but performance is fine.

I was lifting and pushing myself pretty hard. I was making gains, but it was slow. I thought that was normal. I would also get fatigued pretty easy, and have a tough time making it through some longer squat or especially deadlift workouts. I'd feel like I had the flu after a tough workout. I thought that was normal, but again I was wrong. I've put on some significant muscle in the past year.

I stopped lifting weights for about 9 months and lost gains that I had accumulated over some years. I've been back at it for about 3 months and it seems like I get no where. I just don't seem to look or be as strong as I used to.

Initially, my main concern was gaining muscle, looking better and getting more fit, but as I think about how my life has slowly changed, I would like to feel more motivated and energetic.

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It's a lifetime commitment, and only you can decide what is right for you. Your story just sounds very familiar.

tooth said:

It's a lifetime commitment, and only you can decide what is right for you. Your story just sounds very familiar.

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Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate you sharing your experience. Did you have any concerns before starting? Have you had any negative issues? Age?

I hear some say it's a lifetime commitment and others scoff at that idea. I didn't get married until I was 34 (worked out great btw). The words lifetime commitment in any context seems to scare me! Lol.

The doctor that I spoke with about TRT said, sure you can come off anytime. You'll just go back to having low T. I think he was making a point more than just stating a fact.

I'm a very positive person and I work hard to keep going and make things around me better. With that, I have started to wonder if things have slipped away more than I realize. It all seems to require more effort than it used to. I never considered that I might have low T, until a couple of guys from work talked about it.

Going from sub 300 to say 900-1000 , yu will feel that in the gym for sure. It's not just the test level, it's also more energy and recovery. You def sound over trained and I would first look at sleep and stress.
As far as libidio and such, be aware that for some this can get worse or better while on trt.
As far as stoping make sure to be using Hcg, beyond that here is no guarantee on what happens but many people revert after a couple of months of feeling bad.
I myself would not just do it for the gym reason alone.

Absolutely someone on TRT measuring at 600 would make more gains than if that same person's natural levels were at 600. Their average levels would be higher than 600 over the week while on TRT whereas 600 would be their peak if natural.
This leads me to a question I've always asked myself. Would I consider someone on a legitimate TRT program enhanced or natural?

bluerage said:

Absolutely someone on TRT measuring at 600 would make more gains than if that same person's natural levels were at 600. Their average levels would be higher than 600 over the week while on TRT whereas 600 would be their peak if natural.
This leads me to a question I've always asked myself. Would I consider someone on a legitimate TRT program enhanced or natural?

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I think that a 400 point difference should be felt but it's different for everyone. I know my natural test would go between 350 and 500 and I would do from low t symtoms to feeling decent but but not good.
Too many variables to measure gym performance on a small difference. Sleep, eating, effort and consistency.
But as many say, if you feel bad for long enough, you don't realize how much better you should feel.

bluerage said:

Absolutely someone on TRT measuring at 600 would make more gains than if that same person's natural levels were at 600. Their average levels would be higher than 600 over the week while on TRT whereas 600 would be their peak if natural.
This leads me to a question I've always asked myself. Would I consider someone on a legitimate TRT program enhanced or natural?

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I would say they are enhanced. Imagine, if I were natural, and I had a bad day eating, or didn't sleep well, or drank too much, it would affect my natural T levels, but, if I were on TRT, nothing short of missing an injection, could affect my T levels. They would be rock solid, no matter how sick I was.

If you're consistent and smart about your training and nutrition, reaching optimal T levels through TRT can make a big difference in your body composition.

jason999 said:

Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate you sharing your experience. Did you have any concerns before starting? Have you had any negative issues? Age?

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I'm 43, been one year on trt next month. I had a ton of concerns. I was on no meds, perfect health. The thought of self injecting freaked me out, the thought of being on meds the rest of my life freaked me out, the shitty public stereotype given to testosterone freaked me out. The whole dam thing freaked me out. Mostly because I didn't realize I had anxiety from the low t . I was suspicious, but was in total denial. I tested three times before I had to admit to myself that I did have low t. How could I squat, bench and deadlift the way I was with low t, how could I grow a beard in a week with low t, etc? Allot of the public misconceptions didn't add up. I had a ton of blood tests, an mri, bone scan, etc and everything came up roses except my t levels.

As for negatives, having to give myself injections twice per week has gotten better but I still hate it, and having to give blood to manage my hematocrit is a drag. It's also not cheap. Those are things I'm willing to deal with in order to feel as good as I do now though.

It's a journey and you'll find allot of guys have your same story. Finding a good doctor is half the battle. Dr's that understand trt are far and few between. If your doc doesn't get it, then get in touch with someplace like the one that sponsors this board.

You have gotten some great feedback in the above. I'll share some of my similar experience. I'm 42 and have been working out on quality Resistance training programs for over 6 years. The last two to three years I just couldn't make very much progress in the gym. Strength gains were stalled and energy was not there. I was the type that used a scale to weigh everything I ate and track Macro's and calories to try and meet my goals (at least towards the end). Due to my low 'T' I struggled to get rid of body fat and make noticeable gains. I started TRT about 14 weeks ago (Doc has me on a higher dose than many recommend though), and in this time my deadlift increased by over 100Lbs. Also, saw significant strength gains in Squat and Bench. I don't weigh my food anymore and don't eat near as strict and my abs are starting to show now. Obviously TRT has many more benefits than this, but just one of the benefits I've experienced thus far.

Yeah..it's great hearing first hand experience from you guys.

Star plex, it sounds like you have made some good gains. What dose are you on? Do you plan to stay at a higher dose for an extended amount of time?I wouldn't be opposed to a bump up in the dose at the beginning or along the way, but I wouldn't want to get too high for long. I'm not saying I'm right and someone else is wrong. That's just me...I would rather play it safe for the long run.

Starplex said:

You have gotten some great feedback in the above. I'll share some of my similar experience. I'm 42 and have been working out on quality Resistance training programs for over 6 years. The last two to three years I just couldn't make very much progress in the gym. Strength gains were stalled and energy was not there. I was the type that used a scale to weigh everything I ate and track Macro's and calories to try and meet my goals (at least towards the end). Due to my low 'T' I struggled to get rid of body fat and make noticeable gains. I started TRT about 14 weeks ago (Doc has me on a higher dose than many recommend though), and in this time my deadlift increased by over 100Lbs. Also, saw significant strength gains in Squat and Bench. I don't weigh my food anymore and don't eat near as strict and my abs are starting to show now. Obviously TRT has many more benefits than this, but just one of the benefits I've experienced thus far.

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My dosage is 250mg/week split into 1/2 ml twice/week. On my last test I came back just over the recommended High range. I'm not taking an AI & my E2 registered at 80, which is also high. However, I don't have any of the high E2 symptoms so I'm apparently the T/E ratio is in check. I've recently lowered each pin to a little less, approx. 0.4ml. I'm probably still higher than normal, but my doc is okay with that (and actually wants the "T" on the high range or just a little over) and unless I start seeing any negative symptoms I'm going to stay the course until my next labs. Maybe I'm my own test subject, ha ha.

250mg/week is basically a low dose steroid cycle and if it was your trough that came back just over the high range than your peak is way too high for trt which is more than likely related to your high e.

If you feel good overall and your blood work is ok at that dosage I see no issues but 250mg/week is high for trt.