High natural T but option to go TRT

[Vvs1]

Hey everyone,

I've had my T tested probably 10-15 times over the last 8 years. It's ranged from 600 to 790. Shbg is somewhat an issue in the low 50s, but lowest of 37 at one time.

I've been through Defys tests. Cortisol was kind of low, reverse t3 is high- so currently on t3 medicine.

I have taken Clomid, dhea, and an AI. No positive changes in symptoms.

I was finally offered TRT along with hcg and an AI, and about to make an order.

I'm just wondering what you guys think. Its just been a long 8 year struggle with problems I thought I'd never have. Endo keeps pushing me to a psychiatrist.

 

[MarkM]

A key factor is where your Free T sits. That is what does all the heavy lifting even though it is only a small fraction of your Total T. If it's good, then you might still have a thyroid that needs to be optimized better or depending on where the Cortisol is, maybe an adrenal issue. Do you know where your Free T is? Have you ever had your estradiol tested with the Estradiol Sensitive test (LC/MS/MS). If you have dealt with Defy I am sure you had your estradiol tested using the "Sensitive" test.

It would help if you can give us the ranges on Total T, Free T, E2 and SHBG since all labs use different ranges.

 

[HealthMan]

Hey everyone,

I've had my T tested probably 10-15 times over the last 8 years. It's ranged from 600 to 790. Shbg is somewhat an issue in the low 50s, but lowest of 37 at one time.

I've been through Defys tests. Cortisol was kind of low, reverse t3 is high- so currently on t3 medicine.

I have taken Clomid, dhea, and an AI. No positive changes in symptoms.

I was finally offered TRT along with hcg and an AI, and about to make an order.

I'm just wondering what you guys think. Its just been a long 8 year struggle with problems I thought I'd never have. Endo keeps pushing me to a psychiatrist.

First of all. What symptoms do you have?

 

[Vvs1]

Mark,
Free T has always been low- 2.0% was the highest it's ever been tested. 1.6-1.7% for most testing rounds. And yes, Sensitive E2 by Defy. I went over and beyond their normal tests, and faxed for Dr Saya to review. Some include zinc rbc and DHT.

I'll find my Defy labs with the Clomid, dhea, and exemestane. My pre Defy labs are unreliable due to a stupid attempt with a vegetarian diet. I did it thinking it would help cleanse my liver (high shbg) but it just increased my shbg even further. But please remember the vegan diet has nothing to do with my years of prior symptoms.

 

[Vettester Chris]

Elevated RT3 is a marker for something else going on. It usually means FT3 can't reach the cells or adequately reach the cells (cortisol issues or iron issues), so in essence administering T3 could just mean you're feeding the fire. Find the cause of the RT3 and address it, that would be my advise.

 

[Vitamin_C]

try taking some nettle, usually keeps my SHBG in a good range.

 

[Vince]

I definitely would not consider testosterone at your levels. Find out what's causing your reverse T3 as Chris stated. I don't believe trt will help at all.

 

[Vvs1]

I attached my labs. This was with Clomid once a week, exemestane once a week, dhea/preg, and stinging nettle. No thyroid meds during these labs.

Labs look ok, but I was exhausted during this time, so bad that I wondered how I could stay awake driving home. Thought I'd have to quit my new job.

 

[Vvs1]

First of all. What symptoms do you have?

No morning wood, no sexual urges, weak orgasm.

Brain fog and anxiety has cleared up after years of problems.

It's odd how my symptoms change over the years even though the sexual sides are persistent. Like no drive, but your still crazy about girls, then that crazy fades, then Brain fog hits. I grow chest hair but just takes years to slowly grow. I gain facial hair but its so bad its hard to see in my mirror reflection.

Or some years ejaculation is low, other years high. No throbbing sensation on orgasm then it occasionally happen years later.

 

[Vvs1]

Elevated RT3 is a marker for something else going on. It usually means FT3 can't reach the cells or adequately reach the cells (cortisol issues or iron issues), so in essence administering T3 could just mean you're feeding the fire. Find the cause of the RT3 and address it, that would be my advise.

I look at the causes, and it just looks impossible to find a cause after going years to bad doctors. Like you have to twist their arm to get a Lyme disease test. Attacking the other causes seems impossible.

My rbc copper test was at the very bottom of the range. I think copper is needed for red blood cell formation. My saliva cortisol is low, but I take adrenal supplements which is all I can do.

 

[Vvs1]

try taking some nettle, usually keeps my SHBG in a good range.

What brand do you use? I tried Swanson during a protocol. Sometimes I think Nettle caused me to burn out.

 

[HealthMan]

It looks like you need to look into other things other than testosterone. Your symptoms seem to be very severe and your number are good. Many other things that might cause your symptoms. You just need to work with a doctor willing to run a bunch of tests and try to figure out what ia wrong. My first TRT doctor ran hundreds of tests (even ran lyme disease test because i live in the northeast). I think the answer to your problems is not testosterone levels.

 

[Vettester Chris]

I look at the causes, and it just looks impossible to find a cause after going years to bad doctors. Like you have to twist their arm to get a Lyme disease test. Attacking the other causes seems impossible.

My rbc copper test was at the very bottom of the range. I think copper is needed for red blood cell formation. My saliva cortisol is low, but I take adrenal supplements which is all I can do.

In adequate cortisol can no doubt cause T3 to pool, which will prompt an increase in RT3. It's the body's method to regulate and conserve energy when there's something wrong. You mentioned the low cortisol, but what does that mean? What's needed is to see your 4x circadian profile with AM, Noon, early evening and nigh time results, preferably with a DHEA correlation analysis. Also iron & ferritin are major factors for this process. Let us know ...

 

[Systemlord]

My personal experience with Free T at 2.86% was by definition too low for me, Total T was only 376 and Free T 15.1 pg/mL which is midrange and yet I felt horrible. The high normal ranges exists because some of us are naturally at the top of the ranges.

 

[Mountain Man]

I don’t believe this is testosterone related. You need to explore the psychological possibilities of this, along with sleep, diet, mental attitude and the sexual relationships you have. And how’s your training? The reference to anxiety is also telling. Maybe if the anxiety is treated things will get better. Don’t assume there is a silver bullet to fix all this. I wish I had those T levels.

Don’t see a psychiatrist, as they will give you meds right off the rip. See a therapist first and see if some CBT therapy can help get the anxiety under control. I wouldn’t dot TRT and throwing meds at anxiety is a last resort.

 

[Vvs1]

It looks like you need to look into other things other than testosterone. Your symptoms seem to be very severe and your number are good. Many other things that might cause your symptoms. You just need to work with a doctor willing to run a bunch of tests and try to figure out what ia wrong. My first TRT doctor ran hundreds of tests (even ran lyme disease test because i live in the northeast). I think the answer to your problems is not testosterone levels.

Do you have suggestions on what to test? Most tests the doctor gave me were scans like brain and stomach MRIs, chest x ray, heart test, seizure test, colonoscopy and endoscopy. He did a lot of liver tests like gamma-GT. I had a couple tests where liver enzymes were high, then they'd fall back to normal.

 

[Vvs1]

In adequate cortisol can no doubt cause T3 to pool, which will prompt an increase in RT3. It's the body's method to regulate and conserve energy when there's something wrong. You mentioned the low cortisol, but what does that mean? What's needed is to see your 4x circadian profile with AM, Noon, early evening and nigh time results, preferably with a DHEA correlation analysis. Also iron & ferritin are major factors for this process. Let us know ...

Low cortisol was pointed out by Dr Saya on my 4x circadian profile. 8am was just over half the normal range. Dr Saya said that at 12pm the values made a huge drop.

I now take Ashwaghanda, and a lot of adaptogenic herbs. And started an adrenal glandular.

 

[Vvs1]

My personal experience with Free T at 2.86% was by definition too low for me, Total T was only 376 and Free T 15.1 pg/mL which is midrange and yet I felt horrible. The high normal ranges exists because some of us are naturally at the top of the ranges.

If your SHBG is low, then try a vegetarian diet. My SHBG is normally low 50s. And went up to 88 on a vegetarian diet.

Hope you are feeling better.

 

[Vvs1]

I don’t believe this is testosterone related. You need to explore the psychological possibilities of this, along with sleep, diet, mental attitude and the sexual relationships you have. And how’s your training? The reference to anxiety is also telling. Maybe if the anxiety is treated things will get better. Don’t assume there is a silver bullet to fix all this. I wish I had those T levels.

Don’t see a psychiatrist, as they will give you meds right off the rip. See a therapist first and see if some CBT therapy can help get the anxiety under control. I wouldn’t dot TRT and throwing meds at anxiety is a last resort.

I was addicted to the gym when this started. I quit the gym a few years later. Took a long break. I follow a protocol developed by the guys with Finasteride sides. I go gluten free majority of the time, lots of fruits and vegetables with chicken or steak. Rarely any fast food. I try to get 7-8 hours of sleep.

I did have really bad panic attacks and anxiety. But I developed the symptoms way before anxiety started. It wouldn't kill your morning wood though?

I have seen psychiatrists and one psychologist who tried hypnosis. My end wants me to see a psych who is under the supervision of the doctor that developed Addyi, the female libido drug, and try that.

 

[fifty]

Your t and free t are above the top range and you’re considering trt?