What is the highest testosterone level for long term health ?

[Braindev]

How can I know if a total testosterone of 1400 ng/dl is healthy for me?

 

[CoastWatcher]

What sort of protocol are you on that produced that result? What was the stated range provided by the lab that ran this test? If I recall, you are outside the US, and that means you are not able to access the sensitive estradiol test, but did you run any estradiol labs? Do you have hemoglobin, hematocrit, and psa values?

 

[Vince Carter]

a 1400, trough, wouldn't be TRT by most any given standard for TRT. Healthy? Keeping up with full labs every few months...hematocrit, Hemoglobin, PSA, DHT, et al..,
I don't see why you can't run at 1400 if you like. But that's not in the bounds of TRT either. Many of factors may be the tipping point for whether that's healthy or not.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I agree with CoastWatcher and Vince.

A testosterone level that can ensure the following will be reasonable:

1- A hematocrit elevation that does not require more than 3-4 times per year blood donation or phlebotomy.

2- A estradiol level (sensitive assay) of under 45 pg/dL. This is debatable, however.

3- Blood pressure under 130/80.

4- HDL over 40 mg/dL

5- A PSA under 4

6- Good quality of life and libido

7- Low water retention

 

[Nelson Vergel]

How Low is Too Low? Low Testosterone Health Risks

 

[Vince]

I would agree, if you feel good and all your labs are good. 1400 ng/dl would be fine. I am wondering why you would like your T so high?

 

[Braindev]

Anti-depressant effect.

 

[Vince]

Anti-depressant effect.

Braindev, so what you're saying high levels of total T keeps depression away for you? If that's true, I would keep my levels high and control any bad effects from high T.

 

[Vince Carter]

Anti-depressant effect.

Are you experiencing this NOW or it's something you want to try?

 

[Braindev]

Are you experiencing this NOW or it's something you want to try?

Not now. In past. High testosterone is great for depression.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Here is a study in older men NOT taking testosterone.

In Older Men an Optimal Plasma Testosterone Is Associated With Reduced All-Cause Mortality and Higher Dihydrotestosterone With Reduced Ischemic Heart Disease Mortality, While Estradiol Levels Do Not Predict Mortality - See more at:

Full text:

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jc.2013-3272

 

[Bambi]

Studies seem to suggest 50-70%

Here is a study in older men NOT taking testosterone.

In Older Men an Optimal Plasma Testosterone Is Associated With Reduced All-Cause Mortality and Higher Dihydrotestosterone With Reduced Ischemic Heart Disease Mortality, While Estradiol Levels Do Not Predict Mortality - See more at:

Full text:

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jc.2013-3272

View attachment 1854

Reading the study it appeared to me that a finding presented indicated top quartile is not as longevity promoting as that directly under it ( third highest 50-75%). Also seemed to indicate a level around 500-600 as reducing all cause mortality in untreated men in this study. I think from my own observations that this level is comfortable and free from high blood pressure increases and a lower hematocrit raise over time [lower, not NONE]. As for a peaceful feeling - currently I am trying to assess if that 500-600 range is psychologically better then maintaining it a bit higher. To be honest- until after the election, being mellow would be a wonderful state of being. As for higher 'E' - my total is a bit above normal, with bad 'E' being in the non-harmful level, and I believe it is more pleasant and better cardiovascular profile with blood pressure being more amenable to medication, or so it seems to me. Body composition changes occurred around 950, however sides were worse.

 

[williamdavid413]

Informative discussion.

 

[Braindev]

I agree with CoastWatcher and Vince.

A testosterone level that can ensure the following will be reasonable:

1- A hematocrit elevation that does not require more than 3-4 times per year blood donation or phlebotomy.

2- A estradiol level (sensitive assay) of under 45 pg/dL. This is debatable, however.

3- Blood pressure under 130/80.

4- HDL over 40 mg/dL

5- A PSA under 4

6- Good quality of life and libido

7- Low water retention

When I have 1700 ng/dl testosterone,

1- HCT stays 45%. No need blood donation
2-Estradiol level is 30-35
3-Blood pressure is 110/65
4-HDL is 45
5-PSA is fine
6-Excellent libido
7-Low water

Sounds perfect for me. I think because of my age, high level of testosterone is good for me, am I right? So I can stay on 1700 ng/dl without problem?

 

[GA8314]

When I have 1700 ng/dl testosterone,

1- HCT stays 45%. No need blood donation
2-Estradiol level is 30-35
3-Blood pressure is 110/65
4-HDL is 45
5-PSA is fine
6-Excellent libido
7-Low water

Sounds perfect for me. I think because of my age, high level of testosterone is good for me, am I right? So I can stay on 1700 ng/dl without problem?

We probably just don't have studies. The parameters of health, including you feeling very well would suggest you are at a good place as far as TRT goes. Sure, that's a very high number, and while it's true that we don't know over many years how that will do for you, I would think that many of our "instincts" on this board would be that you are going to be fine. Just continue following up on labs, and maintain a healthy life in other areas as well, and my guess is that you'll be just fine.

Personally, I'm lowering my dose a bit to see how I feel. I've been on a variety of higher than TRT doses, and while it's great for muscle and recovery, I did NOT feel the best overall at those levels. I think this is the experience of many on this forum. More is not always better.....

But, it's hard to argue with what you posted. I would stay where you are at and not worry about it.

 

[Nicolas Arcadio Lopez]

Love the posts!

 

[kspat]

What is your weekly testosterone dose Braindev?

 

[GA8314]

When I have 1700 ng/dl testosterone,

1- HCT stays 45%. No need blood donation
2-Estradiol level is 30-35
3-Blood pressure is 110/65
4-HDL is 45
5-PSA is fine
6-Excellent libido
7-Low water

Sounds perfect for me. I think because of my age, high level of testosterone is good for me, am I right? So I can stay on 1700 ng/dl without problem?

To add, I look at it like this. If you feel markedly better (not all do) with a slightly higher than normal level (we don't know you're free T but let's assume that is also slightly supra physiologic), and it allows you to be a better person in terms of life activities such as being more prone to exercise, being more active, having better sex, have increased muscle mass versus fat mass (positive body recomposition), engaging your kids or grandkids more because you simply feel better, stronger, and have more energy, AND you meet the parameters suggested above, then it's LIKELY that you will be just fine.

I personally feel there is little risk, provided you meet those criteria, in having a level somewhat above normal range.

Studies on supra physiological dosing for prolonged (>6 months) duration don't really exist, but there's not a study on all variables on all things in medicine. So, one can only use reason and sound logic such as making sure parameters which ARE known are in check. With that, you (with your Doctor) should make your own decisions based upon your goals, lifestyle, and values.

 

[evanmarcus]

This one is quite interesting things to know I believe.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

The highest testosterone dose and blood level someone should try to achieve is determined by these parameters. For some men, higher testosterone does not trigger any of these while others cannot tolerate more than 100 mg of testosterone cypionate or enanthate per week.