Scientists report that enzyme that alters testosterone to estrogen has big impact in healthy brain

[Nashtide]

Agree, so seems like the prudent thing to do is present both sides of the AI issue with all the necessary information so the new guys can make a good decision. This site is definitely in the “cry wolf” side of the equation.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Agree, so seems like the prudent thing to do is present both sides of the AI issue with all the necessary information so the new guys can make a good decision. This site is definitely in the “cry wolf” side of the equation.

Sure. I would love to see estradiol studies that I have not posted on ExcelMale.com

This site has the largest collection of estradiol related references on the Internet. And not all of them are against estradiol management.

There has not been one single study looking at high estradiol in healthy men on testosterone. I challenge anyone to correct me.

 

[Nashtide]

Sure. I would love to see estradiol studies that I have not posted on ExcelMale.com

This site has the largest collection of estradiol related references on the Internet. And not all of them are against estradiol management.

There has not been one single study looking at high estradiol in men on testosterone. I challenge anyone to correct me.

No need to take my post personally. I think your site has the best info on the internet for men using TRT. However, I stand by my post. Most guys on here are anti aromatase inhibitors and many of them have this opinion because they overused an AI. Not because of any scientific data or studies. That’s troublesome.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I did not take it personally. I just fantasize to have any of those doctors that preach the anastrozole message to debate me with data. I would love to discuss this with someone that actually has taken the time. Too bad Dr Morgentaler has not agreed to have a webinar with me.

Here is a good paper he wrote: Article: Elevated Estradiol During Testosterone Replacement : To Treat or Not To Treat?

 

[Nashtide]

I guess my issue with this debate is that there is no evidence that long term elevated estrogen in men is harmful and there is no evidence that long term use of very low dose anastrazole is harmful. So the only thing we can do at this point is use common sense. Since estrogens are hormones and most doctors think hormones do have a safe and healthy range, it stands to reason that long term health can be negatively affected by any hormone imbalance.

 

[fifty]

That paper concludes:

When an aromatase inhibitor is used, it should be titrated so that E2 levels remain above 40 pmol/L to preserve bone health, and monitoring of bone mineral density with DXA is recommended.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I guess my issue with this debate is that there is no evidence that long term elevated estrogen in men is harmful and there is no evidence that long term use of very low dose anastrazole is harmful. So the only thing we can do at this point is use common sense. Since estrogens are hormones and most doctors think hormones do have a safe and healthy range, it stands to reason that long term health can be negatively affected by any hormone imbalance.

Actually, there is a lot of data on the health implications of low estradiol. There are two small studies on the health implications of high estradiol (one done in men with low T). There are no studies on the implications of higher estradiol in men with higher T. Since 0.2-0.4% of T converts to E2, then why should the max E2 level allowed be the same for a man with 500 ng/dL T compared to someone with 1000 ng/dL? Also, as T dose increases, SHBG decreases making free T and free E2 go up. No one has studied this either. I keep telling the Baylor doctors to do these studies but their estradiol testing is old school and they can't switch to LC/MS due to a long-term contract with a lab they use.

I list all of them here

Role of Estradiol in Men and Its Management

 

[Nashtide]

Okay, it makes sense that if there are long term health issues with low E2 then it’s not a huge leap to assume that there may be long term health issues with high E2. Also, there is no real long term studies that say high E2 is safe as long as T is also high. I’m not going to argue that guys with higher T cannot support higher E2, but just like there is an upper level of T that is safe, there has to be an upper level of E2 that is safe and beyond that level health problems will exist.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Okay, it makes sense that if there are long term health issues with low E2 then it’s not a huge leap to assume that there may be long term health issues with high E2. Also, there is no real long term studies that say high E2 is safe as long as T is also high. I’m not going to argue that guys with higher T cannot support higher E2, but just like there is an upper level of T that is safe, there has to be an upper level of E2 that is safe and beyond that level health problems will exist.

You are 100% right about your summary. Just because there is no data on high E2 in men on TRT it does not mean that high E2 is a good thing. The question really is how high is too high for men with high T. Some day we will have a clearer picture.

 

[Alive]

It may be a stretch but each time I tried arimidex I felt something went slightly wrong in my head. Difficult to put it in words.

 

[lowe2sucks]

It may be a stretch but each time I tried arimidex I felt something went slightly wrong in my head. Difficult to put it in words.

this has been my experience as well
dhea cream life flo caused same reaction by the way.. that's why i've been posting that dhea lowers estrogen

 

[johnjohnson]

I take 0.2mg per week in two divided doses. This keeps my E2 in the high 20’s to low 30’s, so certainly not a low level of E2 and I feel no ill effects from the anastrazole. Again, despite what the forum “experts” tell you, there is no definitive evidence that long term low dose anastrazole is detrimental. 1mg of anastrazole is a huge does. That would most likely cause E2 to be way too low for most guys. I’ve been on anastrazole for the better part of 3 years and have not experienced any of the symptoms you mentioned.

Nash do you take .2mg total a week? or .2 twice a week?

 

[Nashtide]

Nash do you take .2mg total a week? or .2 twice a week?

0.2 mg total

 

[johnjohnson]

0.2 mg total

how exactly do you manage that? Not sure if the compounding pharmacy here will make .125mg pills. Should I just do volumetric dosing with vodka?

 

[Nashtide]

how exactly do you manage that? Not sure if the compounding pharmacy here will make .125mg pills. Should I just do volumetric dosing with vodka?

Couldn’t be simpler. I dissolve my anastrazole tabs in vodka so that I have a solution that equals 1 mg/ml. Then I draw up 0.1ml and squirt it into a glass with a small amount of water in it and drink.

 

[johnjohnson]

Couldn’t be simpler. I dissolve my anastrazole tabs in vodka so that I have a solution that equals 1 mg/ml. Then I draw up 0.1ml and squirt it into a glass with a small amount of water in it and drink.

Awesome. Thanks man. Also I saw where you went off an AI for a little while to experiment, how did that go? Ive been on no AI for the majority of my treatment, total test always 750-900, free test at the upper half of the range, and estradiol is always high(low to upper 40s at trough). I tried AI a few times but always felt like dog shit, but Ive never tried a super low dose. Overall my TRT experience has been positive compared to how I felt before. However, I still struggle with energy and libido issues, as I used to be raging in the libido area and now its just meh. I have looked at every other angle, sleep study, every thyroid test under the sun, etc. I have left no stone unturned. So I am giving low dose AI a shot to see if I do better slightly lower.

 

[Nashtide]

Awesome. Thanks man. Also I saw where you went off an AI for a little while to experiment, how did that go? Ive been on no AI for the majority of my treatment, total test always 750-900, free test at the upper half of the range, and estradiol is always high(low to upper 40s at trough). I tried AI a few times but always felt like dog shit, but Ive never tried a super low dose. Overall my TRT experience has been positive compared to how I felt before. However, I still struggle with energy and libido issues, as I used to be raging in the libido area and now its just meh. I have looked at every other angle, sleep study, every thyroid test under the sun, etc. I have left no stone unturned. So I am giving low dose AI a shot to see if I do better slightly lower.

I stopped the AI for about three months because my E2 was in the low 40’s. So not really high. After three months I didn’t feel a whole lot different but I noticed two things. First, I wasn’t as strong in the gym and second, I wasn’t having nightly dreams. As soon as I resumed the low dose AI, both things returned.

 

[johnjohnson]

I stopped the AI for about three months because my E2 was in the low 40’s. So not really high. After three months I didn’t feel a whole lot different but I noticed two things. First, I wasn’t as strong in the gym and second, I wasn’t having nightly dreams. As soon as I resumed the low dose AI, both things returned.

Thanks for the replies. A lot of people here demonize AI. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not fucking thrilled about possibly taking one for the rest of my life, but then again I wasn’t thrilled about injecting myself either but that helped me out so much idk where I would be right now without it. Gonna go with volumetric dosing and get labs in about two months along with subjectively viewing things to see if I have any improvements

 

[Nashtide]

The demonizing almost always comes as a result of taking way too much anastrazole. Everyone is different and I happen to feel best when my E2 is between 25-30. Good luck.

 

[Gman86]

Awesome. Thanks man. Also I saw where you went off an AI for a little while to experiment, how did that go? Ive been on no AI for the majority of my treatment, total test always 750-900, free test at the upper half of the range, and estradiol is always high(low to upper 40s at trough). I tried AI a few times but always felt like dog shit, but Ive never tried a super low dose. Overall my TRT experience has been positive compared to how I felt before. However, I still struggle with energy and libido issues, as I used to be raging in the libido area and now its just meh. I have looked at every other angle, sleep study, every thyroid test under the sun, etc. I have left no stone unturned. So I am giving low dose AI a shot to see if I do better slightly lower.

What’s your SHBG at? Also do you know where your DHEA and DHT levels are at?