Question: Pharmaceutically restimulating the hormonal axis


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Thread starter #1

I was a patient of Dr Mark Gordon's in 2016. He does the treatment of brain injury focused on the hormonal disturbances, and should be known to many of you.

There is a close correlation of brain damage and hormonal disturbance, since the organs that monitor and stimulate hormonal production, are in the head.

Therefore I am including that information in my introduction.

I suffered a brain injury in the military, much earlier than 2016, and like so many veterans, there is no real coverage. The VA is a myth peddled to the naive; please don't bring it up (Have you tried muh VA?), and I'm glad if they made you a prostesis and it's helping you. The reality is, a few people get real assistance, the rest get the curb; cannon fodder - from day 1.

I have disability income of $1k a month. I need to know, if, up-front it's worth spending the time contacting Dr's (like Defy), as, having lived overseas, I know how little, real medicine is covered by insurance, and how the rest costs 10x it's rationally affordable value. I barely scrape by on disability as it is, with no medical expenses.

In mid-2016, after some investigation, paid for by a local foundation - as insurance meant to help me off disability, unironically pays for none of this - I had hyperbaric therapy.

I also, I had two blood tests about 6 months apart, separately, in mid and late 2016, ordered by Dr. Gordon. Another foundation paid for Dr. Gordon's time, tests, and initial prescription. He prescribed and had sent, 20mg clomaphene eod. After 90 days, the levels of test were only 425 from 350, and I couldn't feel a thing.

I also had finished a month of Dr. Neubauer's hyperbaric protocol - which I DID feel an effect from.

So, when the clomid prescription ran out, with a way-overpriced bill of $150 for 45 days of 20mg/d from a local US pharmacy, I stopped. I put it on the back burner.

Looking for another session of hyperbaric in 2017, but lacking any money even to pay a low $3,000 fee, I found out about and participated in something else: PRTMS. It helped somewhat.

While neural noise has been reduced, getting neurons to fire in a wave as a group, my neural patterns are yet incorrect, with too much activity at 9hz, split away from slightly less pronounced central activity at 10hz. 'Twin peaks'. And no, I don't watch TV, so I couldn't make a joke about it. Like hyperbaric, I assume in prtms, it's necessary to treat, then wait a certain period of time (6-9 months) to see where things settle. Then retreat as necessary until the desired effect has been achieved.

A second potential prtms treatment is $4,200. Since my first, it has been shortened to 3 weeks of twice-a-day. Of course, not covered by insurance. Since the local facility had closed, it was necessary in 2018, to travel over 1,500 miles over many months, to get to another one to get a follow-up scan.

It was only through the graciousness of the owner of the now-nearby facility, that the $450 initial fee was waived to get the 5 minute EEG done, and the results sent to UCSD for further analysis.

Which showed, from their more detailed analysis: short term memory issues, anxiety, and ringing in the ears. I had mentally blocked-out the ringing, but awareness of it came back, along awareness of the anxiety.

That scan was done in the last month.

Going back again in time to the spring of 2018, after Dr. Gordon in 2016 and prtms in 2017, I revisited the question of pharmaceutically restimulating the hormonal axis. I did a little reading. I talked with a few people. I found a site I was comfortable with, who 'returned calls'.

I received enough for 100mg/day of clomid, 20mg/day of tamoxifen, and 25mg/day of proviron (mesterolone). I'd say it cost about $60/m.

I couldn't afford also getting HCG. I took the dosage daily, and after two days already felt better. The results faded after stopping. That was all about the summer of 2018.

When I could beg for some more money, I ordered HCG too, and Sustamed (4 kinds of T), just in case, but eventually made plans to take the same oral regimine, adding 3x 5,000IU of HCG, at 1x 5,000IU once a week.

As I didn't have quite the equipment, I couldn't take the HCG injections along with the clomid, and ended up doing the same thing as previously (clomid/tam/pro).
Some weeks later, I had then acquired what I needed to take the HCG, and took tamoxifen and proviron with it. 3 weeks of HCG later, I was feeling ok, and ceased taking anything, with a single injection of sustamed (1ml/300mg) a few weeks later, along with oral AI and SERM for that week or two, of tamoxifen and proviron.

I am considering now getting 5x HCG, clomid, tamoxifen and proviron, for a 60-90 day period. I can't afford $100+ blood tests. I may be able to beg for the money for them. I can't afford out of pocket costs for physicians, and I really doubt the lousy local insurance for disability will pay for any of it, even the Dr's time.

Strictly with the prtms, if I could miraculously give birth to $4k - but as we know only monopoly bankers can do that - I would get that (too). My prospects for employment or independent work are low, until I get the prtms and hormonal issues addressed.

Thank you.
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Several things that might help you..
- If the HBOT was helping but it costs 3000, it sounds like you were doing the hard-shelled higher pressure version. You might try the soft-shelled lower pressure version which is much less expensive. I was quoted 80 per session although I have not tried it yet.
- All day chemist is s a good source for clomid and tamox. They are inexpensive and there are other threads on here discussing them and other similar sources
- You HCG dosages sounds very high. Not sure what you are trying to accomplish there.

What exactly is your near-term goal? CBD oil seems to be effective for many brain injuries. I tried it for ringing ears and it did not help much for me but it was very helpful for reducing overall aches and pains. Also, ketones (via diet or expensive supplements) are very effective for anything neurological.


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Thread starter #3
Spokane Hyperbaric, was, is, a very reasonable price for HBOT. 40 treatments, which is the researched-backed Neubauer protocol, at $3,000, is $75 per dive, in a true hyberbaric chamber. It is based on a sliding scale, on income, since 2017. I paid $5k in 2016, through a foundation, which was still very reasonable for a professional medical facility, will all dive-certified technicians, medically-supervised by an M.D.

'Soft-shell' hyberbaric bags can only go to 1.3 atmospheres, which is below the 1.5 specification for Neubauer. I know the lower-pressure hyperbaric has been hawked by people selling hyperbaric treatments, but it is not a valid, long-term solution.

I can't see how CBD would permanently fix brain timing issues. I could see how it could provide temporary relief like pain relief. PrTMS has already helped me. But like hyperbaric, it's necessary to get it, wait a certain period of time to see where the neurons settle-out at, and then rescan and calculate a new prescription. The rescan is also done inbetween sets of therapy sessions, to see if the prescription needs to be changed.

I already eat a very keto diet.
So as far as hormonal therapy goes, you can try Clomid monotherapy again. Not sure how you were doing 20mg EOD, because they only come in 50mg tabs, as far as I know. But, 20mg EOD clearly wasn’t enough to get your levels high enough. So you can try 25mg ED, and see if that works any better.

So the other thing is that you don’t need to use tamoxifen or HCG with the clomid. Tamoxifen and clomid do very similar things, I don’t see there being a lot of benefit to using it concurrently with clomid. HCG I know for sure shouldn’t be used with clomid. Clomid stimulates your pituitary to release FSH and LH, which then will stimulate your leydig cells to produce testosterone. HCG, on the other hand, is suppressive and shuts down your natural FSH and LH. HCG is an LH analogue, and bypasses the pituitary and stimulates the leydig cells directly. So it’s not good to take Clomid, which stimulates the pituitary to produce FSH and LH, and also take HCG, which is suppressive, and shuts down FSH and LH from being released from the pituitary. Your telling your body to do two opposite things. So no need to take clomid and HCG together. Choose only one. It’s also a waste of money to do both. HCG is used to stimulate the leydig cells with LH, but if you’re on clomid, the clomid already stimulates the leydig cells with LH. So it’s literally pointless to do both at the same time.

But overall, why not just go on TRT? A bottle of testosterone is around $20 with a goodrx coupon, and that would last you months. TRT doesn’t have to be expensive. It can be if you go to an expensive clinic, or are on multiple compounds at one time.

Nelson Vergel

You have been messing around with your "HPTA" reset protocol. Here is a simple one that may work. By the way, Proviron (DHT analog not approved in the US) suppresses HPTA. Low dose clomid at 25 mg per day can work but you have to give it time. There is no agreement on what the best HPTA reset protocol is, but all agree on using Clomid. Most guys don't feel well with doses over 25 mg per day. Some are able to do OK on 12.5 mg. hCG up front of the cycle may work, but it is not mandatory.

How to Stop Testosterone Safely and Possibly Reset Your Hormonal Axis - ExcelMale

Coming off TRT- Defy HPTA Reset Protocol

Dr. Scally's most current Restart Protocol?

Getting Off Testosterone or Anabolics? You May Want to Read These PCT protocols


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Thread starter #6
You have been messing around with your "HPTA" reset protocol.
Thank you, Nelson.

Also, I thought someone posted it here, but now I don't see it: What are the actual costs involved for labs and consultation? I need to know because on what I am paid per month, I cannot afford it on my own. I need to be able to say "It costs x amount of money."


Nelson Vergel

I never saw your baseline testosterone before all your experiments. If it was low, chances are that "HPTA reset" will not work. This approach is usually more effective in young men with normal testosterone who used anabolic steroids for weeks.

Just get this done after 12 weeks of finishing your HPTA protocol. No big deal. I am assuming that you have all meds. By the way, Proviron is DHT based and will shut down your HPTA. Just follow any of the protocols I listed. No agreement on what the best protocol is since there is zero comparison data, so all doctors speculate.

Post PCT Panel

If your total T is under 450 ng/dL and your LH and FSH are low, then you know it did not work.
Thank you, Nelson.

Also, I thought someone posted it here, but now I don't see it: What are the actual costs involved for labs and consultation? I need to know because on what I am paid per month, I cannot afford it on my own. I need to be able to say "It costs x amount of money."

Nelson is out of the country and I am responding to this particular post in his absence.

You can calculate the cost of lab work - absent a doctor's order - at (Nelson owns it and many of us use it). All prices are clearly listed.

Contact Defy and Prime Body directly and ask about costs. Tell them, up front, you are only gathering data. They should not upsell or pressure you.