Needle Size to Use To Protect Testosterone Vial Rubber Stopper Integrity

[Fernando Almaguer]

I stand corrected. Just found an article on Science Direct with a study that showed the smaller the diameter the higher the rate of coring. 18G with 10% occurrence, 23G with 33% and higher gauges up to 70%.

"Avoiding unconscious injection of vial-derived rubber particles during intra-articular drug administration" Google it.

Are these particles visible to the human eye. If you are drawing rubber woulnd't it plug up the needle or we would see it suspended in the liquid.

 

[DocGeezer]

In this study, no one saw rubber cores of the 800 or so samples. With the 18G needles the cores they found were smaller than the internal diameter of a 23G needle. The only reason I started researching this was because I saw some floating around in the vial, then I actually saw the grey rubber floating around in the syringe and I would not consider my eyesight that great so they were of pretty good size to be visible to me so I pulled up my florescent magnifier. I did have one instance where the syringe stopped as I was injecting so I pulled out, swapped needles and continued with no issue. (not sure if that's the best course of action but)

Here is the article I referenced: Avoiding unconscious injection of vial-derived rubber particles during intra-articular drug administration

Here is a technique to reduce coring but I would suspect you'd want to use the larger diameter needle to draw: Proper Injection Technique to Prevent Coring - Innovation Compounding

My next leap of logic, and I'm internally debating this. Since I'm clearing the needle by pulling air back into the syringe before I swap needles every time I inject, (every 4 days), I'm wondering if it would be wise to come up with a way to simply pull the grey stopper and pull directly from the vail by totally bypassing the needle through the stopper. ??? To get the last .3 to .4 mL's I do that anyway.

My logic here is that I'm pulling air into the syringe every single time anyway. So by pealing the aluminum off the vial, un corking, resting the grey cork on an alcohol swab, pulling test with 18-20G needle to minimize time, recorking... thinking this would be a bit more air exposure but zero chance of injecting tiny bits of rubber into my body and with the percentages referenced, I'd have 9 times per year with rubber in the syringe from a pure statistics point of view.

This also makes me wonder if these tiny bits of rubber being injecting into people have any direct effect upon other medical issues such as increased stroke risks, etc... Think about folks with diabetes, they do this every day with needles small enough to guarantee they're getting tiny cores every other time.

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

In this study, no one saw rubber cores of the 800 or so samples. With the 18G needles the cores they found were smaller than the internal diameter of a 23G needle. The only reason I started researching this was because I saw some floating around in the vial, then I actually saw the grey rubber floating around in the syringe and I would not consider my eyesight that great so they were of pretty good size to be visible to me so I pulled up my florescent magnifier. I did have one instance where the syringe stopped as I was injecting so I pulled out, swapped needles and continued with no issue. (not sure if that's the best course of action but)

Here is the article I referenced: Avoiding unconscious injection of vial-derived rubber particles during intra-articular drug administration

Here is a technique to reduce coring but I would suspect you'd want to use the larger diameter needle to draw: Proper Injection Technique to Prevent Coring - Innovation Compounding

My next leap of logic, and I'm internally debating this. Since I'm clearing the needle by pulling air back into the syringe before I swap needles every time I inject, (every 4 days), I'm wondering if it would be wise to come up with a way to simply pull the grey stopper and pull directly from the vail by totally bypassing the needle through the stopper. ??? To get the last .3 to .4 mL's I do that anyway.

My logic here is that I'm pulling air into the syringe every single time anyway. So by pealing the aluminum off the vial, un corking, resting the grey cork on an alcohol swab, pulling test with 18-20G needle to minimize time, recorking... thinking this would be a bit more air exposure but zero chance of injecting tiny bits of rubber into my body and with the percentages referenced, I'd have 9 times per year with rubber in the syringe from a pure statistics point of view.

This also makes me wonder if these tiny bits of rubber being injecting into people have any direct effect upon other medical issues such as increased stroke risks, etc... Think about folks with diabetes, they do this every day with needles small enough to guarantee they're getting tiny cores every other time.

It may not affect us... the body would encapsulate it I imagine much like a piece of wood splinter, bullet or other foreign material. I think one could buy the aluminum with the septa and buy a tool that can crimp it back on each time after use. we have one in our lab for gas chromatography vials. but not something I'll worry about too much. looking forward to more info on this though.

 

[George9]

I use 1 mL vials from Hikma and insulin syringes and have had no problems.

 

[Gladiator]

First vial I ever used I had rubber in the oil after 5 weeks. Using a 23g to draw it destroys the rubber. Now I only use 30g to draw and inject

 

[Another Great Day]

Thanks to the posts by Vince, Nelson, Madman, and many others here, I switched from IM injections to SQ. I use both Cypionate and NPP. I draw both compounds into an Easy-Touch 27-gauge, (1mm/cc 1/2") syringe and then transfer those compounds into a new Easy-Touch 27-gauge insulin syringe. Pain free. Thank you!

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

Thanks to the posts by Vince, Nelson, Madman, and many others here, I switched from IM injections to SQ. I use both Cypionate and NPP. I draw both compounds into an Easy-Touch 27-gauge, (1mm/cc 1/2") syringe and then transfer those compounds into a new Easy-Touch 27-gauge insulin syringe. Pain free. Thank you!

Any bad sides from.npp? Dose? Could we do nandrolone subq?

 

[Another Great Day]

Any bad sides from.npp? Dose? Could we do nandrolone subq?

Just received my labs back. I reduced my Cypionate to 100mg/ml weekly and NPP to 30mg/ml weekly. My testosterone was >1,500, HGB g/dl was 18.5, HCT was 53.8%. The NPP is from Beligas. Cypionate is prescribed by my local MD and purchased at a local pharmacy. At this point I can only assume the NPP is not NPP. In the past I have ran cypionate at 200 mg/ml weekly and my Test levels were about 900. Stopping the NPP and getting therapeutic phlebotomy.

 

[XBiker]

I always recommend a 20 G 1.5" drawing needle, and NOT using an 18 G as the latter will start to degrade the butyl stopper after repeated penetrations.

The 20G is plenty large enough to allow for easy drawing without doing to much damage.

I DO RECOMMEND switching to a new needle for the injection, as a fresh, sharp needle penetrates the skin much easier, with less discomfort.