Lowest dose you have heard to achieve 1000 ng?

albatross

Member
I have decreased my dose on 3 occasions and I still keep hitting over 1000ng each time with a corresponding high aromatise to E2. it seems when I decrease my dose my body just seems to metabolise these substances differently. I have titrated down from 100mg of Test E and 1000iu of HCG a week to 80mg and 600iu over a period of 4 months and I am still hitting the same numbers. which appears to be 1000ng - 1200ng and around 60pg. SHBG is at 50 nmol. There was one reading in December where my E2 came down to about 35pg but this appeared to be an anomaly as 3 other readings have all been above 60pg.

This does not make a lot of sense to me. How far do I have to go down to reach sensible levels? are there any guys out there who hit high numbers with very low doses?

And do I have to bite the bullet and start on a AI or is there still a possibility of manipulating my protocol to achieve reasonable levels?
 

Mr S

Active Member
I was put on 140mg T cypionate per week and my trough was 700ng but no HCG in my protocol. Not just yet. Perhaps HCG mono therapy might work for you in such a small dose? My Dr doesn’t want me beyond 700ng but he soon will start me on HCG because of signs of testicular atrophy. I’ll be facing a different animal then. Who knows how my body will respond to the additional hormone.
 

albatross

Member
I want to avoid an AI if possible. Before I used the Enanthate + HCG I was on Sustanon + Anastrazole for a year put my levels were all over the place.

Test E has given me stability but I suspect it is the addition of the HCG which is pushing my levels high.

Interestingly, before any Therapy my SHBG was quite high at 63. On commencement of therapy this got pushed down to 35 but every titrate down of T since has seen a corresponding increase in SHBG till it now sits at 51 - I suspect any further lowering of Test E will get my SHBG to creep up further.
 

albatross

Member
I am not chasing numbers but I am curious to know if others have had to go to low doses to find a level that does not start pushing E2 up.

Not sure if I should titrate the Test E down further or take less HCG
 

tj

New Member
I think its a luxurious position to have such high levels. only thing to do is titrate down of you are having bad symptoms. Otherwise leave it there at 1200.

I am struggeling to get my numbers over 778ng/dl. And i am using 70 mg sustanon eod.
The curse of low shbg i think. Recently started with 35 daily. Hope that will bring my number up and more important, feel better.
 

Cataceous

Well-Known Member
I am not chasing numbers but I am curious to know if others have had to go to low doses to find a level that does not start pushing E2 up.

Not sure if I should titrate the Test E down further or take less HCG
I'm also experimenting. I think hCG makes estradiol management really tough, so I'm intrigued by the possibility of replacing it with a SERM when TRT doses are kept low enough.

In answer to your original question, I hit almost 1,300 ng/dL with 98 mg T cypionate a week. Later 63 mg T enanathate along with 875 IU hCG/week kept serum T around 800.
 

tmaxey1

Member
I was put on 140mg T cypionate per week and my trough was 700ng but no HCG in my protocol. Not just yet. Perhaps HCG mono therapy might work for you in such a small dose? My Dr doesn’t want me beyond 700ng but he soon will start me on HCG because of signs of testicular atrophy. I’ll be facing a different animal then. Who knows how my body will respond to the additional hormone.
You need a new doctor. You will never get the results you want with a doctor that is fixated on 700ng.

My 70 year old father in law who doesnt take TRT just pulled a 797ng....at 70.

It sounds like your doctor is more concerned with his own interest than he is with yours.


The high E2 conversion is tough. Some of us just convert way too easily.

You may be one of the guys that would benefit from an AI.
 

Blackhawk

Member
I've had over 1000 on 84mg/week, but more consistently in the mid-upper 900s.

Free T upper teens

SHBG 47-52 ish
 

albatross

Member
So I guess 80mg a week and still hitting over 1000 is not as unusual as I thought.

Would I be right in assuming that Test pushes SHBG down so if I go down further then SHBG could carry on rising?

I felt better at 1200 and E2 at 65pg than I do currently at 1000 and E2 at 60 and I suspect that was because at the higher level of Test my SHBG was about 40 whereas now it is over 50.
 

Blackhawk

Member
How long have you been on the lower dose?

It takes me 2-3 months to normalize after dose reductions, and the withdrawal from higher amounts can be very unpleasant.
 

Blackhawk

Member
2-3 months = 8-12 weeks.

Increasing dose feels good quickly. Reducing is witdrawl and takes much longer for me to feel good.

You are a different person YMMV
 
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Systemlord

Member
I have decreased my dose on 3 occasions and I still keep hitting over 1000ng each time with a corresponding high aromatise to E2. it seems when I decrease my dose my body just seems to metabolise these substances differently. I have titrated down from 100mg of Test E and 1000iu of HCG a week to 80mg and 600iu over a period of 4 months and I am still hitting the same numbers. which appears to be 1000ng - 1200ng and around 60pg. SHBG is at 50 nmol. There was one reading in December where my E2 came down to about 35pg but this appeared to be an anomaly as 3 other readings have all been above 60pg.

This does not make a lot of sense to me. How far do I have to go down to reach sensible levels? are there any guys out there who hit high numbers with very low doses?

And do I have to bite the bullet and start on a AI or is there still a possibility of manipulating my protocol to achieve reasonable levels?
I'm seeing a lot of focus on Total T and SHBG in dialing in, we know high SHBG men usually have low Free T and high Total T, we should be looking at Free T to dial-in.
 

Mr S

Active Member
You need a new doctor. You will never get the results you want with a doctor that is fixated on 700ng.

My 70 year old father in law who doesnt take TRT just pulled a 797ng....at 70.

It sounds like your doctor is more concerned with his own interest than he is with yours.


The high E2 conversion is tough. Some of us just convert way too easily.

You may be one of the guys that would benefit from an AI.
I had no idea about numbers indeed. I thought that going from 316 to 700ng in 6 weeks was magnificent. What’s a good number though? My E2 went from 8 to 26 in the same period. Is that too much? Or a bad sign rather?
 

Blackhawk

Member
700 may indeed be magnificent if you feel great. More important in terms of numbers is your Free T, and shbg.

For some guys higher numbers means more optimal, but not for all.

And e2 of 26 is right in range, though some like it a bit higher. 8 is dangerously low for long term health
 
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Mr S

Active Member
Overall I do feel fine. I’m sort of new in this journey which is going to be a lifetime commitment so my guess is that I will have to deal with issues as they arise. I’m glad to know that my estradiol is not too high. I had no idea where it was before my labs as I was put on TRT. As a matter of fact I didn’t know estrogen was a good thing within reasonable levels in a man’s body.
 
I think its a luxurious position to have such high levels. only thing to do is titrate down of you are having bad symptoms. Otherwise leave it there at 1200.

I am struggeling to get my numbers over 778ng/dl. And i am using 70 mg sustanon eod.
The curse of low shbg i think. Recently started with 35 daily. Hope that will bring my number up and more important, feel better.
Whats your shbg? Mine was 16 on initial labs I'm on 40 mg cyp eod wondering what my numbers look like. Might get my labs a little early before the 3 month mark to get a look at them.
 

albatross

Member
It is my understanding that my dose is probably too high if I am aromatising too much? Surely there is a sweet spot we all possess where our testosterone is at a good level but anything above that starts the steady accumulation of E2.

Above 1000 seems to be too high for me as my E2 is still over 60 despite only taking 80mg a week of test E. The difficult question I will ask my doctor is should I titrate T down or HCG?
 
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