Interesting findings regarding my low SHBG after adding NDT when reviewing old labs....

[BillyJ03z]

From my many posts on this forum many people probably know by now that I am a Low SHBG guy (8-18 labcrop range) which manifested after starting TRT 10 yrs ago... I have never gotten dialed in despite numerous changes in Test dosage, injections, etc... It's been a struggle to lose weight despite strict dieting and good eating. Im in decent shape but just struggle to cut, drop weight.. Anyway, last year in May 2019, I changed my protocol to 16mg test cyp ed/SQ and I added 1/2 grain Armour Thyroid (30mg).. unbelievably I was able to drop 27lbs and cut up nicely for the summer ( all within a 2 month period)... Upon checking my labs in July 2019, my SHBG went up to 28, but my FT3 dropped from 3.8 to 1.5, FT4 dropped from 1.1 to .5, TSH dropped from 2.3 to .95.... basically my thyroid panel went from optimal to bad, but somehow I was able to drop weight and build some nice muscle easily even though my mental energy/mood decreased from the thyroid drop. My TT was 743, FT was 26, E2 was 56 and SHBG was 28... I stopped taking the NDT in August 2019 due to the decrease in my Thyroid panel and my SHBG has dropped back to my usual 8-18 range and Im back to struggling to cut weight again for the summer... I am guessing the increase in SHBG which was I believe a direct result from the NDT supplementation kicked my body into anabolic mode... I have researched NDT/Thyroid supplementation indeed does increase SHBG and in my case it increased SHBG even when the Thyroid wasn't optimal.... Once again I am trying to cut weight for the summer doing the same eating/lifting protocol as last summer and the weight/muscle is not happening like before. I want to add the NDT back in but the decrease in my thyroid is making me hesitate...

 

[Robotics]

strange response. I had a modest increase in shbg from adding small dose of cytomel (5mcg) to my sythnyroid at that time my free t3 went up, as my free t3 dropped, my shbg did as well. was this all measured at the same lab? is there a chance your misremembering what you were taking at the time of the lab?

if your free hormones are not high enough, perhaps the next bet is to try a full grain?

 

[BillyJ03z]

strange response. I had a modest increase in shbg from adding small dose of cytomel (5mcg) to my sythnyroid at that time my free t3 went up, as my free t3 dropped, my shbg did as well. was this all measured at the same lab? is there a chance your misremembering what you were taking at the time of the lab?

if your free hormones are not high enough, perhaps the next bet is to try a full grain?

Yes, I remember exactly what I took as I keep a log of regimen of what I was taking during all my lab tests... I never tried to increase my NDT as I am afraid to fully commit to NDT/thyroid replacement doses especially due to the fact that you have to slowly build up dosages over several months which causes you to go severely hypo while waiting to guage your sweet spot if at all there even is a sweet spot for thyroid replacement..

 

[Gman86]

I understand ur hesitation to commit to full thyroid replacement. But seems to me the only answer is to fully suppress ur endogenous thyroid production and commit to titrating ur NDT dose until u get up to healthy thyroid levels. If ur SHBG goes up too much, just increase ur TRT dose. What do u have to lose? And there’s no reason to go hypo during the titration process. Just titrate up faster so u don’t have to deal with hypo thyroid levels.

Everyone here fully suppresses their endogenous test production, and doesn’t care. Why are u so afraid of fully suppressing ur endogenous thyroid production?

 

[MarcoFL]

I am up to 1 grain twice a day plus 25mcg of T3 twice per day. Can be tough to find the right dose and combination.

 

[BillyJ03z]

Everyone here fully suppresses their endogenous test production, and doesn’t care. Why are u so afraid of fully suppressing ur endogenous thyroid production?

You may be right... especially looking at my labs after only being on 1/2 grain (30mg Armour) for several months they weren't completely tanked, so I may be able to get to good levels with just a full grain/60mg or grain and a half... The real world result from just a half grain was that I was able to easily drop weight without being able to drop any weight with my natural supposed good levels...

 

[AdamYoung]

Do u guys think it will work for someone who have optimal level of Tyroid panel but have low SHBG levels. I mean, does SHBG increases if i increase my thyroid levels? Just a thought.

 

[BillyJ03z]

Do u guys think it will work for someone who have optimal level of Tyroid panel but have low SHBG levels. I mean, does SHBG increases if i increase my thyroid levels? Just a thought.

Thyroid supplementation will increase SHBG... but it will reduce your own thyroid levels unless you take enough Thyroid to replace your original Thyroid levels...

 

[AdamYoung]

Thanks Billy,
I will post my blood report soon. I started TRT two month ago and finding it hard to find a proper dosage bcas of low shbg. Right now, i am using 250iu HCG EOD and 20mg Test EOD and i using 0.5mg AI EOD. I am planning to stop AI and check again after 2 weeks to see if my estrogen levels have come down. I havent checked my DHT levels though. I will try thyroid supplementation after 2 weeks if my estrogen is not under control. Btw, Do u think i can reduce my TRT further low? Perhaps daily injection? I am also planning to stop HCG but i dont think its causing too much aromatisation as my testicles are not working properly. I am primary hypogonadism.

 

[BillyJ03z]

I just started back on Test Cyp @ 16mg ED.. SubQ...... my SHBG on last lab was 8.8.... when I used Thyroid (Armour) at 30mg (1/2grain) last time my SHBG went up to 28...

 

[AdamYoung]

Thats interesting. What was your thyroid levels before taking thyroid supplements? Research shows hypothyroidism is the cause for low shbg levels in men but i have normal levels of t3, t4 n tsh levels. Wondering if it help if i increase these levels. What do u suggest?

 

[BillyJ03z]

Thats interesting. What was your thyroid levels before taking thyroid supplements? Research shows hypothyroidism is the cause for low shbg levels in men but i have normal levels of t3, t4 n tsh levels. Wondering if it help if i increase these levels. What do u suggest?

My normal Thyroid levels are usually top 10% of range for FT3, bottom 5% of range for FT4, 2 - 2.4 TSH, RT3 ratio in check.... On paper my Thyroid levels look good, but my symptoms resemble Hypo... Only thing I suggest is give Thyroid supplementation a shot and see how you feel and what happens with your labs... I just started back on 1 grain (60mg) of Armour thyroid... Im gonna see how that goes for me.... PS- low SHBG is also caused by exogenous Testosterone supplementation (trt)... before I went on TRT my SHBG was mid 30's and it dropped to single digits/mid-teens after starting trt...

 

[AdamYoung]

I checked mine with 2 labs actually one lab came low and one normal which is just 5 days apart. Looks like i need to give a shot. So, you take 1 grain per day right? Did it help to reduce your abdominal fat? Do u have high cholesterol?

 

[josh_m]

I’ve been on trt for almost a year, and my shbg was 7 when I started out, now it’s a 6. Within months of starting trt I had to change protocol to ED injections - I don’t use any HCG.

I have similar hypo symptoms. My thyroid labs came back fairly normal except for a tsh that goes up and down a bit each time we test.

Dr. Saya wants me to try NDT to see if symptoms improve. I’m hoping it will help raise my shbg.

 

[Vince]

From my many posts on this forum many people probably know by now that I am a Low SHBG guy (8-18 labcrop range) which manifested after starting TRT 10 yrs ago... I have never gotten dialed in despite numerous changes in Test dosage, injections, etc... It's been a struggle to lose weight despite strict dieting and good eating. Im in decent shape but just struggle to cut, drop weight.. Anyway, last year in May 2019, I changed my protocol to 16mg test cyp ed/SQ and I added 1/2 grain Armour Thyroid (30mg).. unbelievably I was able to drop 27lbs and cut up nicely for the summer ( all within a 2 month period)... Upon checking my labs in July 2019, my SHBG went up to 28, but my FT3 dropped from 3.8 to 1.5, FT4 dropped from 1.1 to .5, TSH dropped from 2.3 to .95.... basically my thyroid panel went from optimal to bad, but somehow I was able to drop weight and build some nice muscle easily even though my mental energy/mood decreased from the thyroid drop. My TT was 743, FT was 26, E2 was 56 and SHBG was 28... I stopped taking the NDT in August 2019 due to the decrease in my Thyroid panel and my SHBG has dropped back to my usual 8-18 range and Im back to struggling to cut weight again for the summer... I am guessing the increase in SHBG which was I believe a direct result from the NDT supplementation kicked my body into anabolic mode... I have researched NDT/Thyroid supplementation indeed does increase SHBG and in my case it increased SHBG even when the Thyroid wasn't optimal.... Once again I am trying to cut weight for the summer doing the same eating/lifting protocol as last summer and the weight/muscle is not happening like before. I want to add the NDT back in but the decrease in my thyroid is making me hesitate...

When do you do your labs in relationship to taking your thyroid meds?

That will have a big effect on your levels.

 

[Gman86]

I’ve been on trt for almost a year, and my shbg was 7 when I started out, now it’s a 6. Within months of starting trt I had to change protocol to ED injections - I don’t use any HCG.

I have similar hypo symptoms. My thyroid labs came back fairly normal except for a tsh that goes up and down a bit each time we test.

Dr. Saya wants me to try NDT to see if symptoms improve. I’m hoping it will help raise my shbg.

NDT definitely raised my SHBG a ton. Think it raised it 20-30 points if I remember correctly

 

[ERO]

Consider yourself lucky if (as a low SHBG guy) NDT raises your SHBG. It normally raises it for guys with normal SHBG, but often not for low SHBG guys.

Speaking from experience.

 

[AdamYoung]

NDT definitely raised my SHBG a ton. Think it raised it 20-30 points if I remember correctly

Really?? Is it temporary or kinda a permanent? I mean, if u quit NDT? Does it become low again? Any idea why it increased? Did u change diet or workout?

 

[Gman86]

Really?? Is it temporary or kinda a permanent? I mean, if u quit NDT? Does it become low again? Any idea why it increased? Did u change diet or workout?

Diet and workouts didn’t change. Think it was just due to being on NDT. I know that it’s very common for SHBG to increase when on thyroid medication, but not really sure why. I’m assuming the increase in free T3 increases SHBG for some reason. Here’s my labs on 2.5 grains of NDT, and then 3 months later on no thyroid medication. SHBG went back down to baseline once I stopped taking the NDT

4-30-19
Labs were while on this protocol:
TEST- 122.5 mg/ week (17.5mg ED of Prop)
No HCG
No AI
2.5 grains of NDT per day
Total T - 1423 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free T - 134.8 (46.0-224.0)
Bio T - 265.5 (110.0-575.0 ng/dL)
SHBG 63 (10-50)
E2 Sensitive - 72
E2 NOT Sensitive - 49
E2 Free - 1.02 (<0.45) (0.2-1.5)
Albumin - 4.3 (3.6-5.1)
IGF-1 - 202 (53-331)
DHEA-S - 465 (106-464)
T3 total - 230 (76-181)
T4 total - 9.4 (4.5-10.5)
Free T3 - 7.3 (2.3-4.2)
Free t4 - 1.6 (0.8-1.8)
Rt3 - 22 (8-25)
TSH - 0.01 (0.4-4.5)
Thyroglobulin antibodies - (<1)
Thyroid peroxidase antibodies - (1) Range - (<9)
Iron, Total - 109 (50-180)
Iron % saturation - 37% (15-60)
Iron Binding Capacity - 292 (250-425)
Ferritin - 45 (20-345)



7–23-19
Labs were while on this protocol:
TEST- 147mg/ week (42mg EOD of PROPIONATE
No HCG
No AI
No NDT
Total T - 1002 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free T - 134.2 (46.0-224.0)
Bio T - 287.7 (110.0-575.0 ng/dL)
SHBG 39 (10-50)
E2 Sensitive - 45
E2 NOT Sensitive - 41
E2 Free - 0.94 (<0.45) (0.2-1.5)
DHT - 75 (16-79)
Albumin - 4.7 (3.6-5.1)
IGF-1 - 225 (53-331)DHEA-S - 440 (106-464)
Progesterone - 0.5 (<1.4)
T3 total - 106 (76-181)
T4 total - 6.0 (4.5-10.5)
Free T3 - 3.3 (2.3-4.2)
Free t4 - 1.0 (0.8-1.8)
Rt3 - 12 (8-25)
TSH - 0.78 (0.4-4.5)
Iron, Total - 173 (50-180)
Iron % saturation - 55% (15-60)
Iron Binding Capacity - 315 (250-425)
Ferritin - 30 (20-345)

 

[AdamYoung]

Thanks Gman for all the details. One question, is there any side effects of using t3 long term? Or increasing t3 to high levels?
Why did you stop taking NDT?
Do you think i should start taking NDT as i have low SHBG?
Actually i went to private clinic and they offered me NDT and metformin but i said no as i had.no clue up until now.