I did 4 week total test bloodwork. Kind of early but was curious where I was landing on my dose.

Stoak

New Member
I began on 160-170 mg per week (I have 210 test CYP and was prescribed .4ML 2X per week). I did this for week 1 and week 2 but couldn't sleep. Some guys here suggested I skip a dose then lower the dose going fwd. I skipped 1 of the doses in week 3 and then went to .35 ML for the second shot that week, then .35ml 2X for week 4 and going fwd or 140-150 mg weekly. I'm also on HCG 250iu per week. I'm sleeping normally again but I don't know if that was just an adjustment period or the dose was too high initially. I'm using a 29g 1/2 insulin syringe so it should be accurate. Who knows. I live in NYC so I cannot pay privately for bloodwork panels thru discounted labs or another provider. It's a strange law here. What I could do was order a quest direct test for total testosterone. They have very limited test offerings (no other sex hormone panels for males), but it was a curiosity for me. My full panel is schedule for week 12 which will be doctor prescribed.

So 3.5 days after my afternoon shot on Thursday... which is Monday of week 5... I had a blood draw. My total test was 1190. This seems high to me on 140-150mg test cyp. Maybe it is just early and my body isn't completely shut down yet I can't say. My doctor told me that my HPTA would be shut down in 2 weeks at my starting dose.
 
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Vince

Super Moderator
I began on 160-170 mg per week (I have 210 test CYP and was prescribed .4ML 2X per week). I did this for week 1 and week 2 but couldn't sleep. Some guys here suggested I skip a dose then lower the dose going fwd. I skipped 1 of the doses in week 3 and then went to .35 ML for the second shot that week, then .35ml 2X for week 4 and going fwd or 140-150 mg weekly. I'm also on HCG 250iu per week. I'm sleeping normally again but I don't know if that was just an adjustment period or the dose was too high initially. I'm using a 29g 1/2 insulin syringe so it should be accurate. Who knows. I live in NYC so I cannot pay privately for bloodwork panels thru discounted labs or another provider. It's a strange law here. What I could do was order a quest direct test for total testosterone. They have very limited test offerings (no other sex hormone panels for males), but it was a curiosity for me. My full panel is schedule for week 12 which will be doctor prescribed.

So 3.5 days after my afternoon shot on Thursday... which is Monday of week 5... I had a blood draw. My total test was 1190. This seems high to me on 140-150mg test cyp. Maybe it is just early and my body isn't completely shut down yet I can't say. My doctor told me that my HPTA would be shut down in 2 weeks at my starting dose.
If it was me, I would lower my T dose to 50 mg twice a week and if you can afford it, have labs in six weeks.
 

Stoak

New Member
If it was me, I would lower my T dose to 50 mg twice a week and if you can afford it, have labs in six weeks.
When I started doing research on TRT it seemed as if 200mg was the starting dose. Most of the initial information I got on the subject was watching Dr. Rand videos on Jay Cutler's youtube. Another clinic I talked to was a starting dose of 200. My clinic happened to be 160.

I'm sleeping fine now and I have a ton of energy. Only thing else I have noticed is that I'm losing my erections quicker than usual and the force of my ejaculate has gone down. There is definitely something different there for now. I'd like to tough it out and stay as close to my provider's recommended dose as I can (as long as my sleep isn't messed up) until I've given it 3 months.
 

Vince

Super Moderator
I believe it’s better to
When I started doing research on TRT it seemed as if 200mg was the starting dose. Most of the initial information I got on the subject was watching Dr. Rand videos on Jay Cutler's youtube. Another clinic I talked to was a starting dose of 200. My clinic happened to be 160.

I'm sleeping fine now and I have a ton of energy. Only thing else I have noticed is that I'm losing my erections quicker than usual and the force of my ejaculate has gone down. There is definitely something different there for now. I'd like to tough it out and stay as close to my provider's recommended dose as I can (as long as my sleep isn't messed up) until I've given it 3 months.
I believe it’s better to start low then too high. That high dose really hurts the cholesterol panel. Everyone thinks they need that high dose to build muscle. I don’t think that’s true, you do just as good with a lower dose.
 

madman

Member
I began on 160-170 mg per week (I have 210 test CYP and was prescribed .4ML 2X per week). I did this for week 1 and week 2 but couldn't sleep. Some guys here suggested I skip a dose then lower the dose going fwd. I skipped 1 of the doses in week 3 and then went to .35 ML for the second shot that week, then .35ml 2X for week 4 and going fwd or 140-150 mg weekly. I'm also on HCG 250iu per week. I'm sleeping normally again but I don't know if that was just an adjustment period or the dose was too high initially. I'm using a 29g 1/2 insulin syringe so it should be accurate. Who knows. I live in NYC so I cannot pay privately for bloodwork panels thru discounted labs or another provider. It's a strange law here. What I could do was order a quest direct test for total testosterone. They have very limited test offerings (no other sex hormone panels for males), but it was a curiosity for me. My full panel is schedule for week 12 which will be doctor prescribed.

So 3.5 days after my afternoon shot on Thursday... which is Monday of week 5... I had a blood draw. My total test was 1190. This seems high to me on 140-150mg test cyp. Maybe it is just early and my body isn't completely shut down yet I can't say. My doctor told me that my HPTA would be shut down in 2 weeks at my starting dose.
You were already given solid advice in your previous thread which was to stick it out and stay on the same prescribed dose until blood levels have stabilized in 6 weeks than have blood work done to see where your TT/FT/E2 levels sit at the trough on such protocol (T dose/injection frequency) or lower your dose slightly.

You chose the latter but unfortunately, the major mistake you made was wasting your money and having blood work done after 4 weeks which was pointless in your case because when you started trt you were injecting the prescribed dose (168mg/week) split into twice-weekly injections (84mg every 3.5 days) for week 1 and 2 then you went and skipped your first injection of week 3 and following that lowered your dose to 73.5mg for your second injection of week 3 and going into week 4 you continued with the twice-weekly injections at your new lowered dose of 73.5mg (147mg/week).

I understand you may have been eager to test and see where your levels were at but because you were not consistent with your protocol than testing at 4 weeks was pointless.

Again when starting trt or making a dose adjustment (increase/decrease) to a current protocol it will take 6 weeks for blood levels to stabilize as T levels will be in FLUX during the weeks leading up until levels stabilize.

What some truly fail to understand when starting a protocol is that it has to be consistent meaning the dose of T used and the injection frequency need to stay the same during those 6 weeks as again not only are levels in FLUX and increasing but we need to maintain the given protocol without tweaking or skipping doses or injection frequency in order to truly see where ones trough TT/FT/E2 level would sit using the said dose of T and injection frequency.

If you start lowering doses or skipping doses during the transition leading up until blood levels stabilize at 6 weeks then it is anyone's guess where your trough TT/FT/E2 levels would truly sit using said prescribed protocol (dose of T/injection frequency).

Seeing as you have kept your new lowered dose consistent in week 4 and 5 you will now have to wait another 4 weeks without manipulating your protocol until blood levels stabilize than blood work can be done to truly see where your trough TT/FT/E2 level end up as a result of lowering your weekly dose of T to 147mg/week (73.5mg every 3.5 days).
 

madman

Member
When I started doing research on TRT it seemed as if 200mg was the starting dose. Most of the initial information I got on the subject was watching Dr. Rand videos on Jay Cutler's youtube. Another clinic I talked to was a starting dose of 200. My clinic happened to be 160.

I'm sleeping fine now and I have a ton of energy. Only thing else I have noticed is that I'm losing my erections quicker than usual and the force of my ejaculate has gone down. There is definitely something different there for now. I'd like to tough it out and stay as close to my provider's recommended dose as I can (as long as my sleep isn't messed up) until I've given it 3 months.

There are 2 camps: start low and go slow or start high off the hop (some of the T clinics/T mills are notorious for such).

Much more sensible starting low and going slow than jumping in feet first.

Some of those T-clinics that take the high road tend to be the same ones that mindlessly dish out aromatase inhibitors like candy simply because they are jacking most men's T levels absurdly high which will result in sky-high E2.

Let alone they prescribed the standard cookie-cutter high dose T 200 mg/week once weekly which has peak TT/FT/E2 levels through the roof only to be followed by a much lower trough come to the end of the week.

Sure some men do well using once-weekly injection but it is far from common and will result in less stable blood levels throughout the week.

If anything injecting twice weekly would be more common and you would be amazed at what TT/FT levels at trough could be attained using a lower overall weekly dose of T let alone less drastic variation between peak--->trough level.

I can hit a TT 1200/high FT at trough injecting 75mg every 3.5 days (150mg/week) on T only protocol.

There are also many that end up injecting EOD or daily using very low doses of and are able to achieve a healthy TT/FT level let alone stable blood levels throughout the week.

Unfortunately, there is that more is better mentality on the internet from some of the misinformation littered on youtube and the net.
 

madman

Member
Even then 6 weeks means S**T when looking at the bigger picture.

That is once blood levels have stabilized on your new protocol it will take 2-3 months for the body to adapt to those levels and during this time is when one should truly gauge how they feel overall regarding relief/improvement of low-t symptoms related to (mood/energy/libido/erectile function, body composition, recovery).

When starting trt or tweaking a current protocol (increasing/decreasing dose/injection frequency) many fall into the trap of gauging how they feel during this time when T levels are in FLUX and have not even stabilized yet which is a huge mistake and will only result in one getting caught up in that constantly tweaking and manipulation my protocol MERRY-GO-ROUND!
 

Stoak

New Member
You were already given solid advice in your previous thread which was to stick it out and stay on the same prescribed dose until blood levels have stabilized in 6 weeks than have blood work done to see where your TT/FT/E2 levels sit at the trough on such protocol (T dose/injection frequency) or lower your dose slightly.
That was your advice. Other guys said to skip a dose and then drop the dose. I'm not really sure whose advice is actually considered "solid" but I do know that I was able to sleep by skipping a dose then lowering it.
 

Stoak

New Member
Even then 6 weeks means S**T when looking at the bigger picture.

That is once blood levels have stabilized on your new protocol it will take 2-3 months for the body to adapt to those levels and during this time is when one should truly gauge how they feel overall regarding relief/improvement of low-t symptoms related to (mood/energy/libido/erectile function, body composition, recovery).

When starting trt or tweaking a current protocol (increasing/decreasing dose/injection frequency) many fall into the trap of gauging how they feel during this time when T levels are in FLUX and have not even stabilized yet which is a huge mistake and will only result in one getting caught up in that constantly tweaking and manipulation my protocol MERRY-GO-ROUND!
This may be more correct than I initially thought. 10 years ago if you told me there was a forum of men experiencing all sorts of issues on 100-200mg of test I would not have believed it. I would have thought you were crazy... but it seems the older we get, the more affected we are by small changes in body chemistry. All I know is that plenty of bodybuilders who are adding compounds, varying dosages by hundreds of milligrams of androgens per week are not having the issues it seems a mountain of men are having going from 120-140mg of testosterone.
 

madman

Member
That was your advice. Other guys said to skip a dose and then drop the dose. I'm not really sure whose advice is actually considered "solid" but I do know that I was able to sleep by skipping a dose then lowering it.
Again you are missing the point you tested your T levels at 4 weeks which was pointless because not only did you skip a dose you also lowered your weekly dose so it tells you nothing about where your T levels will end up as your levels were in FLUX.

You need to keep dose/injection frequency consistent for 6 weeks before testing.
 

Stoak

New Member
Again you are missing the point you tested your T levels at 4 weeks which was pointless because not only did you skip a dose you also lowered your weekly dose so it tells you nothing about where your T levels will end up as your levels were in FLUX.

You need to keep dose/injection frequency consistent for 6 weeks before testing.
Why is it pointless? It was just a total testosterone test. It told me 2 things... my compounded testosterone is most likely at least label dosed and probably spot on(you may snicker at this but someone new to this who has only really used human grade foreign pharmaceuticals in ampules isn't so certain). When I would get bloodwork done on much higher doses many years ago on testosterone my TT multiplier was usually 6-7X the dose on enanthate. Unless the steroid plotter is wrong, 2 and definitely 3 weeks into 2X weekly cypionate ester injections the peaks and troughs are so close there is really no difference. One doesn't seem to need to wait 6 weeks.

 

madman

Member
Why is it pointless? It was just a total testosterone test. It told me 2 things... my compounded testosterone is most likely at least label dosed and probably spot on(you may snicker at this but someone new to this who has only really used human grade foreign pharmaceuticals in ampules isn't so certain). When I would get bloodwork done on much higher doses many years ago on testosterone my TT multiplier was usually 6-7X the dose on enanthate. Unless the steroid plotter is wrong, 2 and definitely 3 weeks into 2X weekly cypionate ester injections the peaks and troughs are so close there is really no difference. One doesn't seem to need to wait 6 weeks.




The shutdown of the hpta can take anywhere from 2-6 weeks and higher doses (250-500mg/week) have been shown to result in quicker shut down (2 weeks).

Even then with such ester it will take 4 weeks to reach steady-state and most wait 6 weeks to have blood work done.

Look at any of the numerous studies using sub-q T injections (enanthate) steady-state was achieved at week 4-6.

Again yes you tested at 4 weeks but you skipped a dose let alone lowered your dose at the end of the 3rd week and throughout week 4 so testing was truly pointless because you did not stick to the said dose of T you started on 164mg/week (84mg every 3.5 days).

Where your T sits after 4 weeks of the original set protocol you manipulated is not accurate, plain, and simple.

You injected 164mg (84mg every 3.5 days) week 1
164mg (84mg every 3.5 days) week 2
73.5mg (SKIPPED DOSE/LOWERED DOSE) week 3
147mg (73.5mg every 3.5 days) week 4


Again as I already stated numerous times which you are not grasping is even if one chose to test at 4 weeks.

In order to truly know where your TT/FT/E2 levels sit at trough or peak ( if one chose to test such) than the protocol meaning the SAME dose of T and injection frequency would need to be consistent as in steady week in and week out as we are testing blood work once levels have stabilized on the said protocol.










Pre-dose and 24 hours post-dose concentration ranges overlapped at week 4 and beyond, which is consistent with having approached steady-state exposure (Figure 2).
1591313131142.png
 

Attachments

madman

Member
2 previous studies from my older threads on here if you want to look up.

*Safety of a New Subcutaneous Testosterone Enanthate Auto-Injector: Results of a 26-Week Study

*A 52-Week Study of Dose Adjusted Subcutaneous Testosterone Enanthate in Oil Sel-Administration via Disposable Auto-Injector
 

Stoak

New Member
The shutdown of the hpta can take anywhere from 2-6 weeks and higher doses (250-500mg/week) have been shown to result in quicker shut down (2 weeks).

Even then with such ester it will take 4 weeks to reach steady-state and most wait 6 weeks to have blood work done.

Look at any of the numerous studies using sub-q T injections (enanthate) steady-state was achieved at week 4-6.

Again yes you tested at 4 weeks but you skipped a dose let alone lowered your dose at the end of the 3rd week and throughout week 4 so testing was truly pointless because you did not stick to the said dose of T you started on 164mg/week (84mg every 3.5 days).

Where your T sits after 4 weeks of the original set protocol you manipulated is not accurate, plain, and simple.

You injected 164mg (84mg every 3.5 days) week 1
164mg (84mg every 3.5 days) week 2
73.5mg (SKIPPED DOSE/LOWERED DOSE) week 3
147mg (73.5mg every 3.5 days) week 4


Again as I already stated numerous times which you are not grasping is even if one chose to test at 4 weeks.

In order to truly know where your TT/FT/E2 levels sit at trough or peak ( if one chose to test such) than the protocol meaning the SAME dose of T and injection frequency would need to be consistent as in steady week in and week out as we are testing blood work once levels have stabilized on the said protocol.










Pre-dose and 24 hours post-dose concentration ranges overlapped at week 4 and beyond, which is consistent with having approached steady-state exposure (Figure 2).
View attachment 9850
SO on 100mg per week SubQ, the average man should be at 1000ng/dl total test by week 6? Am I reading that correctly? That seems awfully high for a multiplier.
 

Tman

Active Member
Well....what I know for sure...your numbers are high for week 4, so your dose probably was too high. It's nearly impossible for me to wait six weeks for resulsts, and I've been chasing my tail for two years. So, be patient and keep your doc informed or you will be on here two years from now asking the same type of questions or looking for the magic answers...like this guy.
 
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