HELP - Beyond miserable

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TDM812

Member
I have been on TRT, for about 1.5 years. I was diagnosed with a low free T level of 6. I know this isn't terribly low, but it was low enough the dr. put me on 140mg of cyp a week. What he doesn't know is that, I was low because I am an endurance athlete. I don't know why, but this seems to be the norm - endurance sports cause T level to go low. Fast forward several months, I started sporadically having poor training performances. Fast forward a few more months, I came to the realization that it was most likely high estrogen, so without labs to confirm, I went online, bought liquidex, and starting dosing at .3 every third day. I don't recall how long it took to get there once I started taking it. My libido was so high it was annoying. I think I was masturbating 2 times a day. A few weeks went by, and one day I started feeling very strange. I couldn't concentrate, paranoid, etc. If I recall correctly, I missed a dose of the dex the week prior. I went to the dr., had labs ran, and my E came back at a 44 (LabCorp). My dr. was clueless, so I started adjusting things on my own. This started me down a road to destruction. It has been nearly 3 months of tinkering, and I am just as messed up today as I was then. I have had labs done several times during the process (see below). Today, I have absolutely hit rock bottom. I have never been so depressed, weak, fatigued, stupid feeling, forgetful, etc. in my entire life. Today alone, I have thought no less than 50 times death would be easier than dealing with this garbage. I sincerely need help, bad. I paid, for a consult with Dr. Crisler last night, but I am guessing someone like him is in high demand, and it will take a while to actually get in. Please give me some advice. I have a dr. who prescribes me whatever I need, and calls in labs whenever I want them, but I am not sold on his knowledge base. I need to fix this fast, not only for my well being, but I have a major endurance competition in a couple weeks. Again, please help. I know this is a lot of information, and it's not the most organized. All labs are from quest, except for 9/20, which is Labcorp

9/5 - estrogen= 44
9/20 - estrogen= <2, 140mg cyp
9/25 - estrogen= 26.1, test total 1420, test free = 2.8, prolactin 7, progesterone = .3, SHBG = 53.4 Looking back at my workouts, I had a really good day. All of the labs looks to be within normal range.
9/28 - cyp inject - 140mg
10/2 - estrogen = 37.5, prolactin = 2.9 (high), hematocrit 44, test total = 1035, test free = 2.05
I didn't take very good notes from 9/5 - 10/02

10/9 - .25 arimidex
10/10 - .25 arimidex / 140 cyp
10/14 - .3 arimidex
10/16 - .25 arimidex
10/17 - estrogen = <15
10/18 - .35 arimidex / 140 cyp
10/20 - .25 arimidex
10/21 - 10/23 felt really bad
10/23 - thought I was low, so I injected 40mg of cyp trying to bring estrogen up
10/25 - this is my typical 140mg injection day, but I only did 120 since I did 40mg 2 days prior
10/26 - .25 arimidex
10/29 - estrogen = 29
10/30 - .125 estrogen
10/31 - I think I was low, hard erection, weak sensation during ejaculation
11/1 - 140 cyp / .25 arimidex
11/2 - felt low, not confirmed by lab
11/3 - felt better, not 100%
11/4 - felt a little better, had a killer training session
11/5 - tired, weak, good orgasm
11/6 - estrogen = 25, .125 arimdex
11/7 - 120mg cyp
11/8 - felt low, chapped lips, had a pretty good training session
11/9 - felt low, but had good libido
11/10 - decent training session, but not great
11/11 - irritable, depressed
11/12 - estrogen 29
11/13 - SHBG = 56 (high), hematocrit=48, PSA = .8, test total = 1090 didn't feel great, but had a killer training session
11/14 - estrogen 35
11/15 - arimidex .15 started to feel bad in the morning, so I thought I had went high based on the 35 estrogen the day before
11/16 - arimidex .15 I had good erections all night, but felt lousy all day
11/17 - arimidex .20 I am feeling beyond lousy. I tried to train, but my legs felt like concrete. I am beyond depressed, etc.
 
Defy Medical TRT clinic doctor
Have you ever tried more than one injection a week and dropping your total dosage down as well? Maybe start with MWF or EOD with a total of 100mg and go from there. You have high shbg so it may not make the difference that many with low shbg see.

You’re changing too much too quickly as well. It takes many many weeks for hormones to stabilize so it’s best to do small changes, and stick to a protocol for long enough for it to take hold and then see how you feel and run labs.
 

TDM812

Member
Have you ever tried more than one injection a week and dropping your total dosage down as well? Maybe start with MWF or EOD with a total of 100mg and go from there. You have high shbg so it may not make the difference that many with low shbg see.

You’re changing too much too quickly as well. It takes many many weeks for hormones to stabilize so it’s best to do small changes, and stick to a protocol for long enough for it to take hold and then see how you feel and run labs.
Thank you, so much for your advice. Based on what you are seeing, would you say I am high, or low right now? I had great erections throughout the night, tired, extremely heavy legs, weak, and severely depressed. If low, would you suggest a little boost of cyp to bring my estrogen levels back up? What would you suggest as a regiment moving forward? Is there anything I can do to ensure I am dialed in enough to compete in an athletic event in a couple weeks?
 

TDM812

Member
I have continued to look back at my training log, and it shows I was in extremely poor condition on 9/29, and absolutely killing it on 10/06, 10/10, & 11/04. I felt like that might bring a little clarity. I find it a way to look back, and see how I was feeling.
 

fifty

Well-Known Member
If it were me i would split your dose.

Monday morning and Thursday evening: 70mg injection with .125 arimidex taken right after the injection.

Hard to say more without more labs. AI dose at injection will blunt any big estrogen spike.
 

TDM812

Member
If it were me i would split your dose.

Monday morning and Thursday evening: 70mg injection with .125 arimidex taken right after the injection.

Hard to say more without more labs. AI dose at injection will blunt any big estrogen spike.
More labs as in more estrogen labs, or more labs as in additional types of labs?

If I split the dose, is there a specific syringe I should use? What I am currently using has hash marks at every .2, making it impossible to inject .70 x2. If I were to do that, how should I make the transition? My last injection was on Wednesday night - 140 mg.
 

fifty

Well-Known Member
Do you have multiple free t and total t labs or are you just testing estradiol as one-offs?

How big is your needle? I would use a .5cc insulin syringe 27g 1/2” or a 1cc insulin syringe w/ a 5/8” 25g needle.

If you can’t do 70... how is your free t? Is it above range?
 
More labs as in more estrogen labs, or more labs as in additional types of labs?

If I split the dose, is there a specific syringe I should use? What I am currently using has hash marks at every .2, making it impossible to inject .70 x2. If I were to do that, how should I make the transition? My last injection was on Wednesday night - 140 mg.

Just grab some 27, 28, or 29 gauge 1/2" insulin needles. They're dirt cheap, like $15 per 100.
 

TDM812

Member
Do you have multiple free t and total t labs or are you just testing estradiol as one-offs?

How big is your needle? I would use a .5cc insulin syringe 27g 1/2” or a 1cc insulin syringe w/ a 5/8” 25g needle.

If you can’t do 70... how is your free t? Is it above range?
Currently, I use 3ml, 22g, 1"

Those are one off. I have the following testosterone labs:

Range - free = .87 - 5.47 / total = 375 - 1000 / SHBG = 10-50

11/13 - total T = 1090
11/13 - SHBG = 56

10/02 - total T = 1035
10/02 - free T = 2.05
10/02 - SHBG = 54.9

9/25 - total T = 1420
9/25 - free T = 2.88
9/25 - SHBG = 53.4
 

fifty

Well-Known Member
If you can only do .2 increments and have to wait for syringes to ship I would do .6 twice a week for 120mg total per week.

Stopping the ai is an option. The lower injection amounts and slightly lower weekly total will keep estrogen lower too.
 

TDM812

Member
If you can only do .2 increments and have to wait for syringes to ship I would do .6 twice a week for 120mg total per week.

Stopping the ai is an option. The lower injection amounts and slightly lower weekly total will keep estrogen lower too.
I don't have to wait, I can go get them at the drug store. Taking into consideration I injected last Wednesday evening, when should I start the 2x dosing?
 

fifty

Well-Known Member
To transition you could start next Wednesday and do Wed/Sat. You could also start next Mon and do the Mon/Thur. Do whatever days you can be consistent on going forward.
 

TDM812

Member
To transition you could start next Wednesday and do Wed/Sat. You could also start next Mon and do the Mon/Thur. Do whatever days you can be consistent on going forward.
Sounds like great advice. I really appreciate it. What kind of condition would you expect this to put me in, in a couple weeks?
 
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