Hello, 57 year old about to start TRT and have questions

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Systemlord

Member
I had 100mg im shot on Monday @11.30 and have not felt anything different so far.

Results​

Effects on sexual interest appear after 3 weeks plateauing at 6 weeks, with no further increments expected beyond. Changes in erections/ejaculations may require up to 6 months. Effects on quality of life manifest within 3–4 weeks, but maximum benefits take longer. Effects on depressive mood become detectable after 3–6 weeks with a maximum after 18–30 weeks. Effects on erythropoiesis are evident at 3 months, peaking at 9–12 months. Prostate-specific antigen and volume rise, marginally, plateauing at 12 months; further increase should be related to aging rather than therapy. Effects on lipids appear after 4 weeks, maximal after 6–12 months. Insulin sensitivity may improve within few days, but effects on glycemic control become evident only after 3–12 months. Changes in fat mass, lean body mass, and muscle strength occur within 12–16 weeks, stabilize at 6–12 months, but can marginally continue over years. Effects on inflammation occur within 3–12 weeks. Effects on bone are detectable already after 6 months while continuing at least for 3 years.

Conclusion​

The time-course of the spectrum of effects of testosterone shows considerable variation, probably related to pharmacodynamics of the testosterone preparation. Genomic and non-genomic effects, androgen receptor polymorphism and intracellular steroid metabolism further contribute to such diversity.
 
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Cali965

Member
Thank you for links......I had read those and wasn't expecting anything like that this soon. I just thought I might feel the initial peak....extra energy or something.
 

Systemlord

Member
Thank you for links......I had read those and wasn't expecting anything like that this soon. I just thought I might feel the initial peak....extra energy or something.
It all depend on the sensitivity at the androgen receptors. You may have injected 100 mg of testosterone, only a very small fraction of it is available to your tissues.
 

Dan_The_Man

New Member
So new to forum, been reading, medical background, and I started on daily microdosing, 10mg/day or 5u from insulin syringe and hcg 100iu daily both subq. 46yo/220lbs/6’7”.

I could be wrong, but it seemed to most natural-like way to dose it. Theoretically it doesnt matter when you inject t but i opt for early am, lil ocd.

Thank for you for all this info, in this one thread. My opinion is, as if it weren’t obvious, anything but daily dosing is suboptimal. And most ppl are overdosing.
 

readalot

Member
And most ppl are overdosing.

What are you talking about? Don't you know you will castrate yourself [joking].

Sadly this guy isn't joking...



 
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Dan_The_Man

New Member
Injecting tc or what i think you mean is test cyp. And im not joking. Starting off at 200mg/week as many clinics do.

Plus its about > clinical effect and < about a lab number/dose.
 

Cali965

Member
My 1st dose was 100mg Cypionate on Monday and my Dr wants me to take 100mg weekly but I think I am going to switch to 50mg Monday am and 50 mg Thursday pm.
Have a couple of questions:

1. Can I switch from 1x 100mg week one to 2x 50mg weekly so soon?
2. At almost 58 do I need to inject more than twice a week?
3. I don't think my Dr will be able to tell how I am splitting up my dosage from my T Test in 7 weeks but want to confirm this?
 

Dan_The_Man

New Member
@Cali965 i feel like its about what works for you, both dosage and hz. For what its worth I believe that daily dosing would be best, just like your body would dose it.

It is not about cheating your doctor on a test, though the level may depend somewhat on the day you draw (how far post injection).
 

Cali965

Member
@Cali965 i feel like its about what works for you, both dosage and hz. For what its worth I believe that daily dosing would be best, just like your body would dose it.

It is not about cheating your doctor on a test, though the level may depend somewhat on the day you draw (how far post injection).
Thanx for the reply.
Agreed it's not about cheating but if she realizes I am injecting daily or twice a week and subcutaneously vs her im instructions she may stop my TRT and she is great as my pcp so just wanted to know if she could tell from tests, again I don't see how but wanted to confirm.
 

readalot

Member
For what its worth I believe that daily dosing would be best, just like your body would dose it.
Body does not dose test cyp with apparent elimination half life of 4 to 7 days IM route (a little longer subq).

Look up Natesto, troches, test cream to the labia or maybe rectum. 1 hr elimination half life.

Intraday peak/trough (pulsatility) very different with test cyp daily vs endogenous test production (or Natesto).
 
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readalot

Member
My 1st dose was 100mg Cypionate on Monday and my Dr wants me to take 100mg weekly but I think I am going to switch to 50mg Monday am and 50 mg Thursday pm.
Have a couple of questions:

1. Can I switch from 1x 100mg week one to 2x 50mg weekly so soon?
2. At almost 58 do I need to inject more than twice a week?
3. I don't think my Dr will be able to tell how I am splitting up my dosage from my T Test in 7 weeks but want to confirm this?
Yes.

No for now. Stick to protocol assess after blood work at 6 and 12 weeks and how you feel.

Correct.
 

Cali965

Member
Yes.

No for now. Stick to protocol assess after blood work at 6 and 12 weeks and how you feel.

Correct.
1. Stick to 2 times weekly with IM or switch to subcutaneous, I know it's my choice but since it's only twice a week I don't see an issue with a 25g or 27g 1" into quads.
2. Next T test is lined up for 7 weeks as I read my body will stop producing T on it's own therefore the result will be more accurate for TRT........is 6 weeks good to go for a T Test?
 

Dan_The_Man

New Member
Body does not dose test cyp with apparent elimination half life of 4 to 7 days IM route (a little longer subq).

What say you is the half life, or would be half life of body’s own test? Good point.

Also why you end up needing smaller dose if dosed daily, theoretically and in practice somewhat. I only have two handful of data points.

My pers assumption is if body optimally produced 10mg every day of test that metabolised quick-lier than exog test then i could only need less of exog test daily, no?
 

Systemlord

Member
My opinion is, as if it weren’t obvious, anything but daily dosing is suboptimal. And most ppl are overdosing.
I was able to get away with 49 mg weekly, injecting 7 mg daily and while this protocol produced the most potent response to therapy, the half-life was too long for a protocol such as this and gave me side effects I couldn’t tolerate.

I only made TRT work by choosing a half-life very short (Jatenzo @237 mg 2x daily) and frequent dosing is the only way I will respond to TRT. Twice weekly protocols was a no go, I had no response to therapy at all.
 

Dan_The_Man

New Member
I was able to get away with 49 mg weekly, injecting 7 mg daily and while this protocol produced the most potent response to therapy, the half-life was too long for a protocol such as this and gave me side effects I couldn’t tolerate.

I only made TRT work by choosing a half-life very short (Jatenzo @237 mg 2x daily) and frequent dosing is the only way I will respond to TRT. Twice weekly protocols was a no go, I had no response to therapy at all.
Interesting, did you start at 7mg or lower? Wonder if just lowering the dose to adjust for longer than optimal half life would work.

first i hear of Jatenzo, which is test undec but its half life is even longer? What gives, not following train of thought.
 

Systemlord

Member
Interesting, did you start at 7mg or lower? Wonder if just lowering the dose to adjust for longer than optimal half life would work.

first i hear of Jatenzo, which is test undec but its half life is even longer? What gives, not following train of thought.
I couldn’t handle 8 mg and 6 was not enough.

first i hear of Jatenzo, which is test undec but its half life is even longer? What gives, not following train of thought.
The half-life of Jatenzo is 6 hours. My peaks are as high as 1052 ng/dL and trough (12 hours later) as low as 287 ng/dL.

Jatenzo is expensive!

 

readalot

Member
What say you is the half life, or would be half life of body’s own test? Good point.

Also why you end up needing smaller dose if dosed daily, theoretically and in practice somewhat. I only have two handful of data points.

My pers assumption is if body optimally produced 10mg every day of test that metabolised quick-lier than exog test then i could only need less of exog test daily, no?
All great points you are bringing up that fall into three general sections:

  1. Area Under Curve (AUC) for endogenous production vs TRT (exogeneous T administration) and mg/day T produced by body vs mg/day injected (AUC for both should be same over a week if the mean daily exo T admin or endo production are the same)
  2. Here's where things getting confusing for dudes: AUC for XXX ng/dl peak TT/fT (natural guy) vs same ng/dl TT/fT for TRT guys (is it measured peak/trough?)
  3. Effect of exogenous T administration on HPTA feedback (pulse frequency and amplitude) and what that means for the rest of your hormones besides T and E.


This thread does a decent job explaining key concepts for 1 and 2 (see these posts in particular):


Item 3 is touched on here and see second thread for details:





Pulse frequency and amplitude of the exogenous Test dose matter with respect to negative feedback to the HPTA.

Note: I have left T-Nation but spent so much time typing over there that I often link to stuff there (which is many times stolen from the geniuses over here @madman @Cataceous, etc). So I appreciate the Mods allowing me to post these links even though typically this would be frowned upon. There is so much information if you search the threads here!

Check out this embarrassment of riches by @Fortunate ...

 
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readalot

Member
1. Stick to 2 times weekly with IM or switch to subcutaneous, I know it's my choice but since it's only twice a week I don't see an issue with a 25g or 27g 1" into quads.
2. Next T test is lined up for 7 weeks as I read my body will stop producing T on it's own therefore the result will be more accurate for TRT........is 6 weeks good to go for a T Test?
Awesome. Since you are running the show you decide when to pull the blood work (peak or trough). I would pull trough so you don't run risk of freaking your Doc out. See my plots on the pharmacokinetics for more info.
 

readalot

Member

Pretty extensive survey of what a natural dude's production looks like over 24 hours from sample of literature data. Most exhaustive summary I have found.
 
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